German-AH Bar

[hipnos]

Gentlemen...I?ve just received this Bar, but I had a very bad feeling on it...Th last ribbon soiled?, but no the others...The thinnest of the bravery medals..., their patina, the bright Newbrand device for bearing the bar...

I need a opinion, please...

thanks beforehand

Miguel

[hipnos]

Reverse

Thanks

Miguel

[Guest Rick Research]

Chromed bars like that still look new.

There should be NO devices on the ribbons-- though period errors were often made with such things.

BUT

It was impossible to have two of the SAME class of Bravery Medal worn together-- for a second award, a bar was worn on the ribbon of the first medal earned.

It appears that the Karl Large Silver Bravery Medal is original-- is that the die cutter's name (circled) "KAUTSCH" under his shoulder? I cannot see if the die cutter "LEISEK" is in the same place on the Franz Joseph medal. Original medals also have the Assay ffice mark on the RIM (arrows to about where they are on the EDGE of the medal) of the medal up near the suspension loop-- usually a TINY indented letter "A" for Vienna.

Large Silver Bravery Medals are no longer easy to find. Depending on what you paid for this, you may want to keep it if both medals are original.

The bar itself has major problems with being a period original with this combination.

[Josef Rietveld]

as addition, the A stands for any edelmetall (noble metall, silver gold). but it was punched at the hauptm?nzamt which was located in vienna. so vienna seems to be ok aswell

haynau

[hipnos]

Chromed bars like that still look new.

There should be NO devices on the ribbons-- though period errors were often made with such things.

BUT

It was impossible to have two of the SAME class of Bravery Medal worn together-- for a second award, a bar was worn on the ribbon of the first medal earned.

It appears that the Karl Large Silver Bravery Medal is original-- is that the die cutter's name (circled) "KAUTSCH" under his shoulder? I cannot see if the die cutter "LEISEK" is in the same place on the Franz Joseph medal. Original medals also have the Assay ffice mark on the RIM (arrows to about where they are on the EDGE of the medal) of the medal up near the suspension loop-- usually a TINY indented letter "A" for Vienna.

Large Silver Bravery Medals are no longer easy to find. Depending on what you paid for this, you may want to keep it if both medals are original.

The bar itself has major problems with being a period original with this combination.

Gentlemen

Dears Haynau and Rick research

LEISEK AN KAUTSCH ARE UNDER THE EMPEROR?S HEAD...I?VE FIND TOO, THE TINY A in a circle deep on the rim of both medals... So it seems they?re Ok?

Some questions more

1/ Is possible to find a big bravery medal with a little one, together is a same bar? two diffferent emperors don?t make any difference?

2/ The order of prelation on the bar must be first the older, or first the newer, in awards of the same rank??

3/ Sword devices must be absents in any austrian medal of the period?? and in the Ehren Kreutz?

4/ We can assume that the bar is a late made-for-sell mount??

5/ As I?ll keep the bar, as correct as possible, do you have any suggestion about what medal must be the more appropiate in the 4th post??

Thanks a lot for you qualified comments, I wish to made a pair of beers with you...

Miguel

Edited March 19, 2008 by hipnos

[Guest Rick Research]

1/ Is possible to find a big bravery medal with a little one, together is a same bar?

Yes. ANY?ALL of the 4 different classes could be worn together.

2/ The order of prelation on the bar must be first the older, or first the newer, in awards of the same rank??

Either way.

3/ Sword devices must be absents in any austrian medal of the period?? and in the Ehren Kreutz?

Bravery Medals NEVER had the X device since they were always for bravery. There should never be any device on a Hindenburg Cross MEDAL BAR ribbon, but often this silly/dumb use of an X device is seen. But it was WRONG.

4/ We can assume that the bar is a late made-for-sell mount??

One of the clips looks like it is broken off the last medal. SOMEBODY has already monkeyed with it. Any attempt to alter anything now will break off the tabs and ruin the bar.

5/ As I?ll keep the bar, as correct as possible, do you have any suggestion about what medal must be the more appropiate in the 4th post??

Nothing you do will improve it, and just about anything will only make it worse.

[hipnos]

1/ Is possible to find a big bravery medal with a little one, together is a same bar?

Yes. ANY?ALL of the 4 different classes could be worn together.

2/ The order of prelation on the bar must be first the older, or first the newer, in awards of the same rank??

Either way.

3/ Sword devices must be absents in any austrian medal of the period?? and in the Ehren Kreutz?

Bravery Medals NEVER had the X device since they were always for bravery. There should never be any device on a Hindenburg Cross MEDAL BAR ribbon, but often this silly/dumb use of an X device is seen. But it was WRONG.

4/ We can assume that the bar is a late made-for-sell mount??

One of the clips looks like it is broken off the last medal. SOMEBODY has already monkeyed with it. Any attempt to alter anything now will break off the tabs and ruin the bar.

5/ As I?ll keep the bar, as correct as possible, do you have any suggestion about what medal must be the more appropiate in the 4th post??

Nothing you do will improve it, and just about anything will only make it worse.

Thanks Rick...

I was wondering about chanfge the last big medal for another litlte, that I own...(Silver or Bronze, I?ve 2 -3 more BM )

I?m amazed that you see the broken clip on the rear...in a low resolution photo..and I?ve not notice nothing with the bar on my hands...!!!

Really you had a good eye for this...

?What?s your Job?

Regards and Thanks very much!!

Miguel

[Guest Rick Research]

I only have one GOOD eye. That changes my focus.

Often I "see" blurs better than clear focus.

I would not change anything. Chnaging anything makes it no longer original. What is there is certainly WRONG...

but was it worn that way by the original wearer, who THOUGHT he should have two MEDALS and not one medal with a BAR?

[Richarddwh]

Aside from the combination and misuse of the sword attachments, the difference in colour of the two bravery medal ribbons would cause alarm to me. The medals themselves seem good. This looks typical of a lot of Austrian medal bars I've seen on ebay that are mounted in the German style. I suspect German style mountings look more attractive to some buyers than Austrian ones. They also seem to attract a higher price.

[hipnos]

Aside from the combination and misuse of the sword attachments, the difference in colour of the two bravery medal ribbons would cause alarm to me. The medals themselves seem good. This looks typical of a lot of Austrian medal bars I've seen on ebay that are mounted in the German style. I suspect German style mountings look more attractive to some buyers than Austrian ones. They also seem to attract a higher price.

I?ve think the same about the last ribbon, that is clearly soiled, the only thing I can imagine is that he has been partialy exposed to the sun...but is difficult to believe.

The medals as I can check for the markings are OK with the adecuate Vienna mint puntziert at 1 o?clock

Thanks

Miguel

Edited March 28, 2008 by hipnos

[Verdun16]

Here are some pics of a bar I used to have,

Bryan

[Verdun16]

[Ulsterman]

...and here is "the" owner in 1918:

[Verdun16]

Wow. Much faster than even Rick on researching a bar

[Ulsterman]

well, narrowed down to @10,000 (+?) other recipients I reckon ...