China Individual Thai ODM

[Hugh]

THAILAND ? Appointment of Princess Sirindhorn (Maha Chakri) as "Princess Royal" (Somdetch Brhat Devaratna Rajasuda Chao Fa Siam Parama Raja Kumari)

Correction courtesy of James Hoard. Thank you, James.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Hugh

[Hugh]

THAILAND ? Commemorative Medal on the Occasion of the Rattanankosin Bicentennal

[Hugh]

THAILAND - Red Cross Reward Medal

[Hugh]

THAILAND - 50 Year Jubilee of the Reign of King Bumibhol Adulhedj

[Hugh]

THAILAND ? 72^nd Anniversary of Reign of King Bumibhol Adulhedj

[Hugh]

Thai badges

And now a request for help. I don't have specific names for the badges shown. The para wings are obvious, but there is probably a more specific name (Command paratrooper, etc.?).

I believe the one at bottom center is probably the Army Command and Staff College (?)

Left must be some sort of assault badge (?)

Right is Navy (RTN), but what? Command at sea?

Edited July 30, 2008 by Hugh

[James Hoard]

THAILAND ? Appointment of Princess Sirindhorn (Maha Chakri) as Crown Princess

Good morning Hugh,

Once again a wonderful array of posts. Thanks for sharing them with us.

Just a small correction about the use of "Crown Princess" for this lady. This is a great mistake of understanding regarding her status. Her Thai title is closer to Princess Royal, not Crown Princess:

Somdetch Brhat Devaratna Rajasuda Chao Fa Siam Parama Raja Kumari

The last four words meaning Supreme Princess of Siam.

The Crown Prince has titles an arm-length long:

Somdetch Brhat Parama Urasadhiraja Chao Fa Siam Mangkuta Raja Kumara (Somdej Phraborom Orasathiraj Siam Mongkut Rajakumarn) where Siam Mangkuta Raja Kumara means Crown Prince of Siam.

Cheers,

James

[Hugh]

Good morning Hugh,

Once again a wonderful array of posts. Thanks for sharing them with us.

Just a small correction about the use of "Crown Princess" for this lady. This is a great mistake of understanding regarding her status. Her Thai title is closer to Princess Royal, not Crown Princess:

Somdetch Brhat Devaratna Rajasuda Chao Fa Siam Parama Raja Kumari

The last four words meaning Supreme Princess of Siam.

The Crown Prince has titles an arm-length long:

Somdetch Brhat Parama Urasadhiraja Chao Fa Siam Mangkuta Raja Kumara (Somdej Phraborom Orasathiraj Siam Mongkut Rajakumarn) where Siam Mangkuta Raja Kumara means Crown Prince of Siam.

Cheers,

James

Many thanks, James,

I suspect I got this medal around the time when the Crown Prince's behaviour was "in question", and there were some who thought that she would be a better successor to the throne. Perhaps some wishful thinking on the part of the people I got it from?

Best,

Hugh

[James Hoard]

Hi Hugh,

Indeed, there was a great deal of speculation at the time and a new law was even introduced. This allowed for the possibility of a daughter of a king succeeding in the absence of a named heir. However, even that did and could not have actually affected anything. Vajiralankara [Vajiralongkorn] had already been named as heir apparent and formally invested as Crown Prince. As indeed your post of his medal confirms.

Cheers

James

[ilja559]

Very nice !!!

[Brian Wolfe]

What a magnificent collection.

Thanks for posting them, truly top notch.

Cheers

Brian

[Hendrik]

Indochina Combat Service Medal, 1941, Mint, Bangkok, 8/2004

This and the following medals for World War II, Korea and Viet Nam are listed in my reference book as Bravery medals. Without a Thai-literate person, I have no further details.

Hello Hugh,

My information is slightly different : not bravery medals but campaign medals according to "The Medals, Decorations and Orders of World War II" by Alec Purves. He also mentions a ribbon device for actually coming under enemy fire during those campaigns.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Hugh]

Hello Hugh,

My information is slightly different : not bravery medals but campaign medals according to "The Medals, Decorations and Orders of World War II" by Alec Purves. He also mentions a ribbon device for actually coming under enemy fire during those campaigns.

Cheers,

Hendrik

Thanks for this input, Hendrik. I hadn't thought to look in Purves; I've become accustomed / resigned to little or no data on Asian ODM in most books. I think you must have a newer version than mine (1986). I didn't see reference to the clasps in mine. My reference on Thai material is a beautiful, large format book with wonderful color pictures of each, given to me in Bangkok by a friend. It's extensive, but almost all in Thai. Not even title nor author nor date of publication is in English.

However, it shows these medals all together under the title (in English) "The Bravery Medal". I agree that it's much more likely that these were treated more like campaign medals, but decided to respect the language of the Thai source. After all, there's a certain degree of bravery in just showing up, I suppose.

All the more motivation to see if there's anything more definitive on the Thai government website. Or perhaps someone else will further enlighten us. Who's out there with a thought?

[Hugh]

Hello Hugh,

My information is slightly different : not bravery medals but campaign medals according to "The Medals, Decorations and Orders of World War II" by Alec Purves. He also mentions a ribbon device for actually coming under enemy fire during those campaigns.

Cheers,

Hendrik

Just a small correction about the use of "Crown Princess" for this lady. This is a great mistake of understanding regarding her status. Her Thai title is closer to Princess Royal, not Crown Princess:

Somdetch Brhat Devaratna Rajasuda Chao Fa Siam Parama Raja Kumari

The last four words meaning Supreme Princess of Siam.

James Hoard

All this immersion in Thai medals sent me back to the official website - www.cabinet.thaigov.go.th/eng/d_menu32.htm

It gave me the opportunity for some microscopic nitpicking (angels dancing on pinheads, etc.)

With respect to the WW II, Korea and Viet Nam medals - they are listed on the Government website in a section which is titled Medals for Acts of Bravery. They are named "Victory medals" for each of the wars. While I still haven't gotten a translation, I suspect they were awarded more like campaign medals as Hendrik says. Watch this space for updates.

With respect to the Princess Royal vs. Crown Princess, the Thai title is "Princess Maha Chakri" (which I had forgotten). At present, I don't think anyone thinks that she will succeed the King, so the use of Princess Royal is more appropriate and in keeping with the British usage. Nonetheless, on the Thai Cabinet website (English), they list the medal as "Commemorative Medal on the Occasion of of H. R. H. Princess Sirindhorn's Investiture of Crown Princess". www.cabinet.thaigov.go.th/eng/d_Other4.htm

Go figure.

Edited August 6, 2008 by Hugh

[James Hoard]

"With respect to the Princess Royal vs. Crown Princess, the Thai title is "Princess Maha Chakri" (which I had forgotten). At present, I don't think anyone thinks that she will succeed the King, so the use of Princess Royal is more appropriate and in keeping with the British usage. Nonetheless, on the Thai Cabinet website (English), they list the medal as "Commemorative Medal on the Occasion of of H. R. H. Princess Sirindhorn's Investiture of Crown Princess". www.cabinet.thaigov.go.th/eng/d_Other4.htm"

Even if it does, it is clearly wrong as any reading of her Thai (actually Pali or Sanskrit) title suggests.

Whether the lowly bod who writes up their wesbsite is enirely conversant with protocol, regal language or the Thai consitution, is open to question. In my experience, website editors are not always the most knowledgeable folk on these subjects. Howlers abound wherever one looks.

Cheers,

Jamees

[Megan]

Website editors in large organisations generally post what they are given! (I know, I've been one!) Even worse if you are posting in a language which you may not be fluent in... I wrote the first Portuguese-language version of the Compaq website, from translations provided... and I did not speak a word of Portuguese when I started on that project. No idea if the text that went on those pages even made sense, let alone said what Compaq wanted it to.

More likely the translator is the one unfamiliar with Royal protocol, Thai-style. Lots of people even those in government get confused on such matters. Back in 1977 when the UK Queen celebrated her Silver Jubilee, the task of organising out-of-London ceremonial was farmed out to regional government offices. The Welsh Office was tasked with the official service at Llandaff Cathedral. Now, the church sorted out the actual service, but someone had to write the dress instructions to be sent to the guests. Nobody had a clue... except, my dad happened to be the civil servant in charge of the Welsh Office so he asked me to write them. Buckingham Palace commented it was the only set of instructions which did not need correcting!!

[James Hoard]

Indeed, very true Megan.

The actual meaning of the post on Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhon is that she invested the Crown Princess!

[Hugh]

Indeed, very true Megan.

The actual meaning of the post on Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhon is that she invested the Crown Princess!

This dialogue is exactly why I couldn't resist posting it. I knew we'd get some informed, even clever responses!

Thanks,

Hugh

[Hugh]

Indochina Combat Service Medal, 1941, Mint, Bangkok, 8/2004

This and the following medals for World War II, Korea and Viet Nam are listed in my reference book as Bravery medals. Without a Thai-literate person, I have no further details.

Conversations with Thai friends have led me to question the "1941" period cited for this medal. (It's the pink ribbon with white side stripes) I think the 1941 period should be covered by the World War II medal of similar appearance, but in silver, green ribbon with red / white edge stripes. If one defines Indochina as the former French colonies, we know that France fought with Siam in 1893 and again in 1906 - 07. Could this medal be for that period?

Looking forward to informed posts and rampant speculation.

Hugh

Edited September 24, 2008 by Hugh

[Hugh]

Indochina Combat Service Medal, 1941, Mint, Bangkok, 8/2004

This and the following medals for World War II, Korea and Viet Nam are listed in my reference book as Bravery medals. Without a Thai-literate person, I have no further details.

In addition to these so-called "Bravery" medals (which I think we all agree are more like campaign medals for Indochina, World War II, Korea and Viet Nam), there is also a "Bravery Medal of the same design, apparently senior in precedence, in two classes (one with gold wreath on the ribbon, one without). The ribbon is half red, half white. Who has any data on this - Really bravery or just another campaign medal? if so, when/where, etc.?

Thanks,

Hugh

[Hugh]

THAILAND ? East Asia War Home Front Service Medal (WW II Interior Non-combat)

Belatedly catching up with ThaiDave's earlier correction. My original posts had these two Interior medal names reversed. (My posts 17 and 18)

Thanks,

Hugh

Edited September 24, 2008 by Hugh

[David S]

Many thanks to all for posting these that are not often seen :cheers: