Group of WW I documents group "saved"

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Everyone,

While paying a visit to a local antiques mall I noticed a Memorial Plaque Scroll for sale. It had been folded into quarters and was priced about four times too high considering it had been folded. I put it back and kept looking at the different documents this fellow had on sale. They were all for sale separately.

Even though they were all priced well beyond anything near a reasonable price I started to think that the chances were that if any of these pieces sold it would be to different collectors. I felt I had to keep them together so I dug deeply into my collecting fund and the next thing I knew I was the new caretaker of the set of documents to 29807 Cpl. Walter Ward of the Highland Light Infanrty who died on 25 March, 1918 near Hardecourt-aux Bois (Somme).

Some research into the history of his unit and the days surrounding his death are as follows:

The 18th (Service) Battalion (4th Glasgow) was formed in Glasgow on 26 February 1915, as a Bantam Bn., by the Lord Provost and City. June 15th: Attached to 106th Brigade, 35th Division. In August 1917 the Corps Calvary Regiment's squadrons were re-roled as infantry and sent for infantry training at Etaples. The Regiment would form the majority of the 18th Battalion of the Highland Light Infantry. On 23 September 1917 the dismounted Glasgow Yeomanary amalgamated and became the 18th (Royal Glasgow Yeomanary) Bn.

1918 found the 18th near Hardecourt-aux Bois (Somme).

The 12th and 18th H.L.I. went into action at Hardecourt, after two nights on the train and a seventeen mile march. In the early hours of 21st March 1918 the Germans threw 60 divisions into a final push action. After three days of heavy fighting the Germans had advanced to a line running from Delville Wood through the eastern edge of Hardecourt to Curlu on the river Somme. The enemy began a heavy barrage at 07:45 on the 25th March and then followed this with a strong frontal attack. An outpost was overrun and part of Faviere Wood was taken by the men of the German 199th Division.

A defensive position had been formed between Hardecourt and the Somme and on it, during March 24 and 25, the 35th Division put up[ a magnificient fight against five German Divisions.

29807 Corporal Walter Ward was listed as missing in action 25 March 1918 and on 3rd September, 1919 he was declared dead by the War Office according to the documents in this group.

Thanks for reading my post and looking at the documents that follow.

Regards

Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

Here is the document that changes his status from Missing to Deceased. I understand that these documents were important if the family was to receive any pension benifits due to the loss of their family member.

[Brian Wolfe]

This is the form letter the family received regarding the loss of their loved one. It is not named but it came with the rest of the documents and seems to be of the same age and shows the same wear as the other papers.

[Brian Wolfe]

This is the document that came with the Memorial Scroll.

[Brian Wolfe]

The last document dated in 1922 states the medals he won. Notice that this is one of those "one-form-fits-all" government forms.

[Tony]

Well done Brian.

I did the same once on ebay with a pair of medals being sold separately and ended up paying much too much just to keep them together. I visited the cemetery at Hardecourt-aux Bois a couple of years ago, I have a casualty Star to 17 year old buried there. It's a small cemetery quite a way from the more familiar names on the Somme.

Tony

[Ed_Haynes]

Good save, Brian. Ultimately, the save matters more than the price. Thanks for doing this and for sharing it.

[leigh kitchen]

Well done, it's good that these things stay together. You must have asked the dealer about the whereabouts of the medals? Any idea how the dealer came by the plaque & documents?

[geoff]

Thats spot on Brian well done, I'm sure you'll soon make your funds up

BANTAM BATTALIONS (information taken from the www)

? 85. Mr. WATT asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether the raising of a battalion of less height than the regulations permit, namely, 5 feet 3 inches, has been sanctioned for several towns in England, including Manchester, Leeds, Birkenhead and Bury; whether this permission has been refused to the large Scottish towns, including Glasgow and Edinburgh; if so, will he say why this distinction has been made; and is he now prepared to put the two countries on an equal basis so far as the raising of bantam battalions is concerned?

Early in the war, when hundreds of thousands of young men were rushing to enlist, there were tens of thousands who found their patriotic ambitions thwarted by regulations. Age was probably the main one, but this was easily circumvented, and there are many stories of youngsters who, having been refused when they gave their true age, simply went to the end of the queue and added a couple of years when their turn came round again. It was more difficult, though to overcome the Army's minimum height, which was 5 feet 3 inches. No matter how fit, strong or willing a man might be, there was no room for him in the army if he could not meet this height requirement.

It took time, but eventually the authorities came to realise that there was a large number of would-be soldiers, keen and eager to serve, and that there were big hearts beating within their small frames. Special Battalions - which became known as Bantam Battalions - were formed and at last, there was a place for these small men who wanted to prove that they could be as good soldiers as any of their taller brothers.

Geoff

[Schwyz]

Brian,

Nice save! I have always felt the paper documents are somewhat more rare than the medals. Very often the paper just does not last, or once tattered eventually gets thrown out ? what a shame.

The Scrolls are scarce enough, but I have never seen the document which was sent with the Scroll.

Cheers,

Gary

[Brian Wolfe]

Well done, it's good that these things stay together. You must have asked the dealer about the whereabouts of the medals? Any idea how the dealer came by the plaque & documents?

Hi Leigh,

The Antiques Malls rent out stalls and the vendor supplies his own locked cases for display. There are attendants who will open the cases for you to take a closer look and perhaps purchase the item. The company who owns the two malls in our area will not give out the names of the vendors. I have left notes for them in their "mail boxes" but becuase this is behind the sales counter the company tells you they will put the note in the box but I doubt they do so as I have never gotten a call from any vendor. Some vendors will place business cards in the cases but most do not. All I can do is to keep checking and hope I either run into the vendor some day when he (I found out the vendor was a man) is stocking his cases or perhaps I'll see the medals for sale. It is all very frustrating.

Regards

Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

Thats spot on Brian well done, I'm sure you'll soon make your funds up

BANTAM BATTALIONS (information taken from the www)

? 85. Mr. WATT asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether the raising of a battalion of less height than the regulations permit, namely, 5 feet 3 inches, has been sanctioned for several towns in England, including Manchester, Leeds, Birkenhead and Bury; whether this permission has been refused to the large Scottish towns, including Glasgow and Edinburgh; if so, will he say why this distinction has been made; and is he now prepared to put the two countries on an equal basis so far as the raising of bantam battalions is concerned?

Early in the war, when hundreds of thousands of young men were rushing to enlist, there were tens of thousands who found their patriotic ambitions thwarted by regulations. Age was probably the main one, but this was easily circumvented, and there are many stories of youngsters who, having been refused when they gave their true age, simply went to the end of the queue and added a couple of years when their turn came round again. It was more difficult, though to overcome the Army's minimum height, which was 5 feet 3 inches. No matter how fit, strong or willing a man might be, there was no room for him in the army if he could not meet this height requirement.

It took time, but eventually the authorities came to realise that there was a large number of would-be soldiers, keen and eager to serve, and that there were big hearts beating within their small frames. Special Battalions - which became known as Bantam Battalions - were formed and at last, there was a place for these small men who wanted to prove that they could be as good soldiers as any of their taller brothers.

Geoff

Hi Geoff,

Thanks for the information. I have not had the time to research the term "Bantam", though I suspected it had to do with shorter soldiers. It's generally known that it's not the big fellow you have to be careful of, it's the little guy. After all as they say, "It's not the dog in the fight that counts, it's the fight in the dog." Only a pint-size fellow like me would say that of course.

Cheers

Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

Brian,

Nice save! I have always felt the paper documents are somewhat more rare than the medals. Very often the paper just does not last, or once tattered eventually gets thrown out ? what a shame.

The Scrolls are scarce enough, but I have never seen the document which was sent with the Scroll.

Cheers,

Gary

Hi Gary,

I agree with you. They don't pass the test of time like a medal. This is the first time I'v seen the document for the scroll as well. That was what caught my attention and only then did I realize that these papers all belonged to the same fellow.

Regards

Brian

[Graham Stewart]

Absolutely brilliant Brian and I'm ever so pleased to see this stuff in safe hands, even if the medals are possibly no longer there. Documents are the bane of most collectors due to storage difficulties, as document holders these days only come in regulated sizes, but most of the documents produced at the turn of the last century come in unusual sizes.

Still it hasn't bothered me and although I still collect militaria to the Northumberland Fusiliers and Royal Regt of Fusiliers, I took the decision a couple of years ago to collect documents, as I've always loved research and so now have over a hundred sets dating from the mid-1800's through to the beginning of the last War.

Although I've done a little research on each individual to-date, my long term plan is to make it a project to explore deeper, when my current project is completed.

[leigh kitchen]

Hi Leigh,

The Antiques Malls rent out stalls and the vendor supplies his own locked cases for display. There are attendants who will open the cases for you to take a closer look and perhaps purchase the item. The company who owns the two malls in our area will not give out the names of the vendors. I have left notes for them in their "mail boxes" but becuase this is behind the sales counter the company tells you they will put the note in the box but I doubt they do so as I have never gotten a call from any vendor. Some vendors will place business cards in the cases but most do not. All I can do is to keep checking and hope I either run into the vendor some day when he (I found out the vendor was a man) is stocking his cases or perhaps I'll see the medals for sale. It is all very frustrating.

Regards

Brian

I find that these are the sorts of sales where you end up paying over the odds too, somebody slaps a price on & nobody's in a position to negotiate the price down with you, or so they claim.