Imperial Russia Order of Saint Stanislas with and Without swords - ribbon question

[lilo]

Hello All,

I would like to know if is it possible that a person could - in different times - receive the Order of St. Stanislas WITH and WITHOUT swords.

If yes (as I believe but would like it confirmed by an expert), can He wear 2 times the same (St. Stanislas) ribbon on his ribbon bar ??

I'm asking this because apparently a british General received both (With and Without swords) versions of the Order of St. Stanislas and I was wondering if He worn 2 St. Stanislas ribbons on his ribbon bar.

Many thanks in advance for the help

Best Regards

Lilo

[GeorgeCL]

Good question.

The Imperial russian did not wear ribbon bars.

The wear of foreign orders for british officers I dont know.

3rd class with or without swords were worn on medal bar

2nd class order was a neck order

and first class was a sash order.

I dont recall seeing a russian officer wearing both with and without swords of the same class at the same time.

George

[lilo]

I dont recall seeing a russian officer wearing both with and without swords of the same class at the same time.

Hi George,

Many thanks for your prompt answer !

Judging from your above statement it seems to me reliable that it is NOT possible that a foreigner (a British in this case) could wear Two ribbons of the same Order (St. Stanislas) although they represents different Divisions (Military and Civil).

Isn't it ?

Regards

Lilo

Edited January 1, 2009 by lilo

[GeorgeCL]

I'll go out on a limb and say the order with swords would outrank the order without and only one ribbon would be worn.

This is the way the russians would deal with it.

I hope this helps.

George

[lilo]

Hi George,

Again Many Thanks !

Regards

Lilo

[Noor]

I don't know what awards post to be on this bar but at least some german got well decorated by russian tsar. Here is one German bar with two St. Stanislaus ribbon on it but I think as well that there is small chance to wear two St.Stanislaus orders (different divisions) same time. Just they used same ribbons for different awards.

General..... its depend what classes he got. I think there is a big chance that general got breast stars or something around the neck - not knights class, because this time all the awards classes were linked with the rank.

Edited January 3, 2009 by Noor

[lilo]

Hi Noor,

Many Thanks for the replay.

I seems to remember that many Russian medals are suspended from ribbons that are used for the various Russian Orders.

Below I have attached 2 british groups at the end of which it is attached the same Russian medal : the Medal of Zeal.

As you can see, although we are in presence of the same medal (Zeal) it is suspended from two different ribbons : St. Anne and St. Stanislaus.

Returning to your German ribbon bar, I believe that we are in presence of this combination : Prussia Order of the Crown (??), Prussia Red Eagle, Russia Order of St. Stanislaus, Russia Order of St. Anne ....+ some medal (possibly that for ZEAL ??) suspended from the St. Stanislaus ribbon.

I consider that the last ribbon is, with almost certainty, for a medal considering also the 'order of precedence' in which the medals usually occupy the last post in respect of the Orders (at least in the British system).

To conclude my comment, I think, in other words, that the 2 St. Stanislaus ribbons in your ribbon bar represent The Order and a medal instead of the two different Divisions (Military and Civil) of the Order of St. Stanislaus.

All the Best

Lilo

Edited January 3, 2009 by lilo

[karakas7]

if you want sold it - karakas7@rambler.ru

[Guest Rick Research]

No, Noor. The same ribbons were used for different awards.

[logicalming]

hello , i have a stanislau order i cant tell if its a 2nd or 3rd class , it is gold, hallmarked with the eagle and 56 on the loop, the ribbon is about 7 inches and the medal is about 4.5 cm

thanx for your help on this matter.

[GeorgeCL]

45mm would be within the sizes for a 2nd class order.

Please post a picture of your order.

George