Prussian bar

[Komtur]

OK, to reactivate the discussion on that bar my thougts about it:

As some first comments showed, at first glance the bar looks fine and made in the late imperial period or between the wars.

Uncommon is the use of ribbons with different width: the ribbons of the EK2, the HOH knight and the Centenary medal are the normal ribbons, the others are ribbons in miniatur width. IMO that is unusual but not a 100% bad sign.

Under UV-light the ribbon of the HOH is shining. As far as I know, that is worse. This glowing of material under UV is a physical reaction known as fluorescence. It can happen with natural and synthetic material. There are some old ribbons often shining under UV as the ribbon of the Bavarian St. Michael Order. But on these old ribbons the colour (often pink and yellow) is glowing. If white is shining under UV it is suspect of the use of an chemical substance called Blankophor - developed in the 50ies in Germany to make white paper and cloth more shiny and since then widely used.

The HOH is no doubt not an oficially awarded order. That level of quality would never have passed the Prussian General-Ordenskommission. It is made of Bronce gild, another sign, that this cross is not the official version, wich should be of gold or silver gilded and marked. If it is a cross by Steinauer & L?ck after 1945, the whole bar is a modern fake, because after 1945 there was no use for such an bar for any person decorated with these awards (if that person was still alive).

So, what we have here?

An original bar before 1918? - Unlikely.

A bar between the wars? - Possible with an HOH knight awarded before 1918 (but a second item and not with the original awarded order on the bar) or possible with an exile decoration of the Ex-Kaiser in Doorn (there was no more General-Ordenskommission and always a lack of money, so cheap and bad quality in that time is known)

A modern fake? - Possible (see above the glowing ribbon and a Steinauer&L?ck HOH)

What do you think?

Best regards, Komtur.

Edited January 6, 2009 by Komtur

[Guest Rick Research]

Glowing white ribbon is the absolute kiss of death for at least that second award.

Many people will argue that because Chemical XYZ was invented in 1934 or 1911 or 457 B.C. that therefore it is "possible" that such ribbons "could" be Original To The Period.

Not so. The glows-white fluorescence that you have noted was not USED in real German ribbons before the 1960s. Even early Bundeswehr ribbon bars do not glow.

The bar has either been altered by removing an award and inserting another (matching the style quite nicely) or the whole thing is Frankenstein parts. :(

[scottplen]

hello

I am no expert ! but i don't like the smaller ribbons used on this bar ! I see a lot of bars on german ebay coming out of austria with this type ribbon! so my guess original medals but as Rick said a frankenstien bar! :speechless1:

[Komtur]

... so my guess original medals but as Rick said a frankenstien bar!

Would be glad, if the bar was made in Frankensteins period of time

Counting all the bad signs together, it seems to be a more "modern production". The bar came from J?rgen Jost, a collector and dealer in Bavaria. There was no possibility to give it back . So be careful with him ...

Best regards, Komtur.