Heer The Army (W) Ordnance Officer Corps

[Guest Rick Research]

I've typed out (so they can be found on alphabetical search) names of the (W) officer corps from Colonel down through Captains the secret 1 May 1943 Seniority List that Glenn has discovered.

Turned up an Oberst (W) shoulder board today

which has sparked some random thoughts on this specialist branch.

They originated under the Imperial forces from a cadre of career enlistment personnel who spent long years in NCO grades, basically waiting for somebody to die or retire before being commissioned in either the Feuerwerks (explosives) or Zeug (ordnance) sub-specialties.

Since most were in their 30s before making Feuerwerks- or Zeug- Leutnant, and because their career "glass ceiling" was Hauptmann, these Imperial era officers were much older in grade than the wearers of similar insignia. They were JUST starting to advance to Feuerwerks- and Zeug- Major as the Empire fell apart.

Under the Weimar Republic--and after the Reichsheer had amalgamated the two specialties into a combined (W) corps-- the career glass ceiling was only raised to Oberstleutnant.

Under the Wehrmacht, the highest grade became Oberst (W) before the war. Surprisingly, during the Second World War only three army officers were promoted to Generalmajor (W)--one of those posthumously. The much smaller navy had three (W) Konteradmirale-- but all three were alive to wear that uniform! The Luftwaffe also had two--submerged among the Flak officers-- as well as one Generalmajor from the even more obscure former Imperial Festungsbau corps.

Naturally, these officers were at a distinct disadvantage because of their age, from all the long years spent in the ranks. Under Weimar, many who came back in as (W-E) officers had been shuffled off into Beamten status to retain them as "civilian employees" circumventing the Versailles Treaty.

What completely surprised me--from my Imperial knowledge--was the TRANSFORMATION of this specialty branch under the Wehrmacht.

Pre-WW2 army lists show a high proportion of VERY old, 60s, officers called back into uniform to fill vitally needed posts under Hitler's massive expansion of the armed forces.

BUT

almost all of those overaged officers had disappeared by 1943!

They were either semi-retired into "zur Verf?gung" "war's duration" slots or had indeed been retired due to age.

What the 1943 DAL Glenn found reveals is a cadre of HIGHLY educated "new" specialists. Among the field grade officers, Major (W) to Oberst (W) 10 held engineering Doctorates, and 37 held the German advanced "Dipl. Ing." diploma.

They were no longer gray haired old ex-Sergeants!!!

As of 1 May 1943 there were

7 Obersten (W)

119 Oberstleutnants (W)

341 Majore (W)

349 Hauptleute (W)

780 Oberleutnants (W)

and

481 Leutnants (W)

There were probably 4 or 5 times as many Obersten (W) in 1939, but probably the same number of Oberstleutnants and Majore-- because so many of the "over the hill" gang had been called back up as (W-E). Those recalled (Erg?nzungs) officers had retired or gone to zV status by 1943. Likewise, in 1940 there had been 10 Oberstleutnants (W) zD, 9 Majore (W) zD, and 2 forlorn Hauptleute (W) zD-- those "zur Disposition" place keepers likewise vanishing by 1943.

So: if anybody has any photos, award documents, insignia, or (best of all?) named uniforms to the army (W) officer corps, please post those items here.

We are now, for the first time EVER, in a position to chart at least parts of these officers' careers. I have cross chcekd promotions of the 1943 (W) officers as far back as either the 1937 Stellenliste or even into Reichsheer and Imperial Army Lists if they went back that far. What Glenn's list has revealed is that the older men often had changes in the infamous German "Patent" seniority dates AND that the younger men leapfrogged up over their older colleagues as the war went on, so that an older officer may have gone up only 1 rank--if at all--while a younger (W) officer went up 2 or even 3 grades.

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Hello Rick.:

Thank you for the very interesting post. I have a pronounced liking for the men who risk and risked everything to render harmless the many devilish devices other men contoct to kill other humans. After having had a slight acquaintance with such articles while on active military service including just one job with a mine-detector while clearing a road in what is today northern Vietnam, I am in total awe of these men.

As an addition I would like to draw the attention to an officer W who is somewhat obscure but undeservedly so>

It is Hptm. (W) Egon Agtha, recipient of the Woundbadge i.Gold for severe wounds suffered in Sep.1941 causing blindness of both eyes., the German Cross i. Gold, the Knights Cross to the I.C. as well as the Oakleaves thereto. Even though legally blind he continued his work in bomb disposal in Berlin, his hometown until the bitter end when he was killed while attempting to break out of the capital city on 2 May 1945. There were other highly decorated n.c.o.'s and officers whose listing here would go beyond this post.'s subject

Bernhard H. Holst

[Guest Rick Research]

Good Lord! He'd obviously been bumped down to zV or even aD status-- not on the 1943 DAL so missed THAT incredible story!

Actually, I would encourage more such individual stories, since they have always been brished off as ammunition depot types.

[Paul R]

Rick,

Your biographical database never fails to amaze me!! Thanks for this very interesting education!

Paul

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Good Lord! He'd obviously been bumped down to zV or even aD status-- not on the 1943 DAL so missed THAT incredible story!

Actually, I would encourage more such individual stories, since they have always been brished off as ammunition depot types.

Hello Rick.

Hptm.(W) was Unteroffizier. in the "Feuerwerker Dienst" charged with the elimination of a British unexploded bomb during the night of 7 to 8 Sep.1941 when the explosion took place which severely wounded him and harmed his eyesight.During subsequent treatment of him he met his wife to be who absolved a practical training course in preparation to become a medical doctor. In view of his certified practical ( legal) blindness Agtha to prepare him for eventual civilian employment, followed special training courses. To facilitate further advancement in civilian life the "Feldzeugmeister" (Chief of Ordnance) sponsored in warm terms his advancement under special circumstances and because of wounds to Leutnant (W) and he attended an Officers Candidate Course in Ordnance subjects from Mar.1942 to Mar.1943. Lt. Agtha received the german Cross i. Gold on 19 Jan.1945, the Knights Cross on 3.Feb.1945 together with promotion to Oblt.(W)d.R. and on 12.Mar.1945 the Oakleaves and the promotion to Hptm.(W) d.R.

Hptm. Agtha was killed on 2.Mai 1945 near the Charlottenburger Bruecke by a shot in the throat while trying to escape from Berlin. His body was retrieved by an NCO of his command who accompanied him during this attempt and buried. His remains were later retrieved and properly buried.in Berlin-Spandau in a honors section.

Source primarily: "Hauptmann (W) Traeger des Ritterkreuzes des Eisernen Kreuzes mit Eichenlaub Egon August Agtha, Feuerwerker und Sprengkommando-Fuehrer Sprengkommando I/III Berlin bis 1945" by Wofgang Thamm

Bernhard H. Holst

bernhard H. Holst

[Guest Rick Research]

Simply... amazing. Literally amazing.

[Paul R]

Simply... amazing. Literally amazing.

Wow Bernhard!! Where did you find this story? For someone who was legally blind, he did very well in a short period of time. I would like to know the stories behind his DKiG and RKs! He sounds like one heck of a guy!

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Wow Bernhard!! Where did you find this story? For someone who was legally blind, he did very well in a short period of time. I would like to know the stories behind his DKiG and RKs! He sounds like one heck of a guy!

Hello Paul.

The source book was written by a former explosive disposal officer of the Bundeswehr who also was 100% disabled and has extensively lectured and written on the subject.

Hptm. Agtha has found his place I believe in the ranks of those who silently did their duty trying to keep the population (to which I belonged at the time) as safe as possible from the unexploded ordnance. The percentage of those was very high due to intentional or true "duds" is not known. Being assigned to Berlin of course gave more than ample work to bomb disposal. more of those perhaps later.

I am reminded of the British Television series " Danger UXB" a gripping , well made series placed in Britain during WW II. It shows the progression of munitions and the attempts to stay level with the opposition.

Bernhard H. Holst