show your Spanish crosses

[MasterBo]

Hello, everyone, any idea who was making the Next of Kin medal?

[Harrier]

Hello, everyone, any idea who was making the Next of Kin medal?

Supposedly Godet....

[Harrier]

Just a little update. I just attended the SOS in Louisville, Kentucky (supposedly now the largest show in the world) and made a special point to look at Spanish Crosses. There were quite a few there, with (surprisingly) almost as many good ones as bad ones. There were some exceedingly fine pieces, including at least 4 Gold class ones in very good shape. Only saw (I think) 2 cases (Silver). Prices were not as bad as I feared, but still pretty high. There was a very nice, uncased Next-of-Kin cross being offered for $4500.

There were several "drop-tail" crosses there, but all were fake, with poor eagle detailing, incorrect hinges, pins and catches, and lightweight construction. On most, the eagles were not even soldered to the cross arms, only the swords. Only 2 were being offered as originals, both by dealers whose other inventory was absolute junk. I did not see a single piece which compared favorably in any way to the ones I posted here. This, of course, does not mean that there are real ones, only that IF there are, they are very scarce indeed.

Saw a very few documents, with most being for the Bronze class (although I did see one Silver with swords). Prices were @ $350-750.

So...if you're looking for Spanish Crosses, you can still find them if you're willing to pay for them!

[MasterBo]

Here is one offered for sale

Spanish Cross in Gold

[Scott]

Question: What grade(s) of Spanish Cross was typically associated with the Spanish Red Military Service Cross? Either Bronze or Silver? Silver only? Unfortunately, my archive of black & white photos of SCW vets do not reveal a clear answer.

Thanks!

[Harrier]

Based only on some photos I have looked at, I think the Red Military Service Cross was for Silver recipients. I will happily be corrected on this.

One other thought on "drop-tail" crosses. Does anyone have any idea why so many minatures of Spanish Crosses use a "drop-tail" eagle? Frankly, minatures are not my field at all, and I probably wouldn't know a good one from a bad one, but it seems to me that many of the ones which come up for sale, including ones on the sites of reputable dealers, as well as some I have seen in the hands of serious collectors, have this feature.

[Jacques]

Question: What grade(s) of Spanish Cross was typically associated with the Spanish Red Military Service Cross? Either Bronze or Silver? Silver only? Unfortunately, my archive of black & white photos of SCW vets do not reveal a clear answer.

Thanks!

I can't find a rule concerning the attribution and connexion between spanish crosses classes and awarded spanish decorations. Checking my files (period pictures and registered letters recapitulative of the decorations owned) I would say:

Gold : Medalla Militar + Medalla de la campana , Cruz de guerra + Medalla de la campana

silver with swords : cruz roja + Medalla de la campana, cruz blanca + Medalla de la campana, Cruz de guerra + Medalla de la campana, medalla de la campana

silver without swords : ?

bronze with swords : cruz roja + Medalla de la campana, cruz blanca + Medalla de la campana, medalla de la campana

bronze without swords: medalla de la campana, nothing

[Harrier]

That's helpful information, Jacques!

[Jacques]

For those who died in Spain, I guess they only received the "Medalla de la Campana" and the "Medalla de sufrimientos por la Patria".

[Scott]

I put together the illustration below some time ago for my own reference. I think it mirrors what Jacques said above. I'm sure there are period exceptions, and it does not account for the award of the Medalla de Sufrimientos, or non-combatant awards. But overall, it might be helpful.

[Jacques]

I put together the illustration below some time ago for my own reference. I think it mirrors what Jacques said above. I'm sure there are period exceptions, and it does not account for the award of the Medalla de Sufrimientos, or non-combatant awards. But overall, it might be helpful.

very helpfull; the cruz blanca is missing

[Scott]

the cruz blanca is missing

Yes - I am confused here also. My references say the Cruz Blanca was awarded for non-combatant roles, yet period photos show veterans wearing the Cruz Blanca with bronze/silver Spanish Cross with swords...?

Edited March 15, 2009 by Scott

[Jacques]

the one you shown is in my collection; here is another one.

[Jacques]

I found a name (SCHIBAU, RK tr?ger) who was warded the SC in gold and the "cruz blanca"

[Scott]

Jacques, My apologies for using your photo - I have removed it.

A Cruz Blanco ("1st Class") and a Gold Spanish Cross... very interesting. Do you have any evidence of the Cruz Rojo being awarded with a Gold Spanish Cross? Or any period photos of the white-armed version of the Cruz de Guerra being worn by a German veteran?

[Jacques]

Jacques, My apologies for using your photo - I have removed it.

A Cruz Blanco ("1st Class") and a Gold Spanish Cross... very interesting. Do you have any evidence of the Cruz Rojo being awarded with a Gold Spanish Cross? Or any period photos of the white-armed version of the Cruz de Guerra being worn by a German veteran?

Hi Scott,

It is not a problem, you can let the picture.

No evidence at the moment for Gold cross + cruz roja

what do you mean by "white-armed version of the Cruz de Guerra" ?

jacques

[Jacques]

Just a little update. I just attended the SOS in Louisville, Kentucky (supposedly now the largest show in the world) and made a special point to look at Spanish Crosses. There were quite a few there, with (surprisingly) almost as many good ones as bad ones. There were some exceedingly fine pieces, including at least 4 Gold class ones in very good shape. Only saw (I think) 2 cases (Silver). Prices were not as bad as I feared, but still pretty high. There was a very nice, uncased Next-of-Kin cross being offered for $4500.

There were several "drop-tail" crosses there, but all were fake, with poor eagle detailing, incorrect hinges, pins and catches, and lightweight construction. On most, the eagles were not even soldered to the cross arms, only the swords. Only 2 were being offered as originals, both by dealers whose other inventory was absolute junk. I did not see a single piece which compared favorably in any way to the ones I posted here. This, of course, does not mean that there are real ones, only that IF there are, they are very scarce indeed.

Saw a very few documents, with most being for the Bronze class (although I did see one Silver with swords). Prices were @ $350-750.

So...if you're looking for Spanish Crosses, you can still find them if you're willing to pay for them!

Did you take pictures ?

jacques

[Harrier]

Sorry, Jacques, I did not.

[Scott]

What do you mean by "white-armed version of the Cruz de Guerra" ?

jacques

Thank you Jacques - the photo of the Heer officer above is wearing the award on his pocket - I could not remember the name. Interesting photo with the Cruz Rojo also!

[naoki matsumoto]

here is the best condition I found; 3 of them were posthumously awarded.

Gold "L/52", Silver "835", Bronze "CEJ"

Silver "4", bronze unmarked Juncker

Hi,Jacques! Always,Shining & splendid SC of yours

I will try to get MINT :cheers:

[Jacques]

Thank you Jacques - the photo of the Heer officer above is wearing the award on his pocket - I could not remember the name. Interesting photo with the Cruz Rojo also!

the name is Eberhardt von Ostmann

[Tim B]

My small contribution:

Bronze is unmarked; Silver is CEJ 900

[Tim B]

Another one showing the same bronze w/swords and an unmarked bronze w/o swords.

Tim

[Jacques]

Very nice crosses Tim :beer:

[Tim B]

Hi Jacques!

Thank you my friend, always loved your collection of these as well. If I ever save up enough cash, I still want one of those silver Meybauers w/swords; they are the best looking IMO.

Tim