Romania Is it possible to establish When was awarded the Romanian Order of the Crown ?

[lilo]

Hi All,

I'm trying to establish when was awarded the Romanian Order of the Crown given to : Francis Douglas BAKER (1884-1958).

On Saturday 16 August 2008, there was the C J MEDALS AUCTION 12. Between the various Lots there was an interesting one whose entry I report below :

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CBE, MC GALLIPOLI DOUBLE MID, FOREIGN ORDER, INTELLIGENCE GROUP TO LATER EGYPTIAN POLICE COMMANDANT consisting of CBE Military, MC beautifully period chisel engraved 2 LT F. D. BAKER GALLIPOLI 1915, 1914-15 Star name erased unreadable add in, BWM and Victory with MID both impressed LIEUT. F. D. BAKER and Commander of the Crown of Italy (LG 29/11/19). Also awarded Order of the Nile 3rd class for military service, and the Order of Ismail 3rd class, Commander Crown of Roumania, Egyptian Gold Medaille de Devoir, Afghan Order of Astaur 2nd class and Iranian (Persia) Order of Homayoun 3rd class for post war service.

Francis Douglas Baker was serving as a 2 Lieutenant with the Royal First Devons who upon arriving at Gallipoli peninsula on 8 October 1915 took their place in the fighting line at Suvla Bay. His actions earned him a military cross (LG 3/6/16). To Egyptian Expeditionary Force in March 1916, promotion to Lieutenant in April and MID LG 13/7/1916 ? believe for spy work as he spoke Turkish and Islamic and looked like a local. The battalion then moved to Palestine with fighting around Sheria and El Foka during December 1917. To France in May 1918 where the battalion saw some very hard fighting around the Hindenberg Line. Having served in G.S. Intelligence since 1917 he gained further promotion to T/Capt in August 1918 and recorded as GSO, Intelligence GHQ from 30 August 1918 with service in Egypt, the Western Desert, Palestine and Syria. Second MID LG 5/6/1919. Providing his services to the Egyptian Government from 1920 he is listed in Who's Who 1941 as Commandant Alexandria City Police and Assistant Director, Central Narcotics Bureau, Government of Egypt. He was appointed Order of the British Empire in 1934 as Assistant Commandant of the Cairo City Police and promoted to Commander of the British Empire in 1942 as Commandant of the Alexandria City Police, a role in which he continued until 1946. Extensive supporting paperwork to head of secret police, wartime spy group.

UnQuote

I would like to know if is it possible (also a guess after reading his bio/entry above reported) to correctly establish the Year of award of the Roumania, Order of the Crown, Commander (if possible, I would like also to know if it was awarded with or without swords ??);

This is important to me because to re-do the Baker's ribbon group (for my personal collection) I must know the exact year of award of the Romanian Order, as a new ribbon was introduced for this Order starting from 1932 (i.e. when the 2nd type of this Order was introduced).

Many Thanks in advance

Lilo

Edited February 24, 2009 by lilo

[Carol I]

As for most of the other Romanian orders, there is no official list of recipients for the Order of the Crown of Romania. However, information should be available in principle from at least three sources: the archives of the old Chancellery of Orders (at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs), Monitorul Oficial (the official government journal) and the British equivalent (London Gazette?).

[peter monahan]

As for most of the other Romanian orders, there is no official list of recipients for the Order of the Crown of Romania. However, information should be available in principle from at least three sources: the archives of the old Chancellery of Orders (at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs), Monitorul Oficial (the official government journal) and the British equivalent (London Gazette?).

Yes, you might find it in the London Gazette. I once owned a WWII pair and Order of the Crown to a British officer of Indian Cavalry and, by purest luck, got into correspondence with one of his fellow officers, then a very old man. His story was that the recipient had no ties to Roumania or to the Eastern front but that various foreign powers would "send a basket of medals round to the Chancery office at Christmas" and that the British would award them to officers and men who hadn't quite made the grade for equivalent British awards. Whether this is true or not he obviously believed it and had spent 20+ years teasing the recipient of the Crown about it. For what it's worth!

Peter

[lilo]

Hello Carol I / Peter,

Many thanks for your comments.

Carol I,

How I may contact or re-search the sources you mentioned ?

Regards

Lilo

[Carol I]

How I may contact or re-search the sources you mentioned ?

1. I think you could ask directly at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs whether it would be possible to do research in their archives. Contact information is available on their site.

2. Old issues of Monitorul Oficial have not been digitised as far as I know, so you would have to contact a major library (like the National Library) in order to consult their collections.

3. The London Gazette (as well as the Edinburgh and Belfast issues) has been digitised and one could consult old issues at www.gazettes-online.co.uk.

[lilo]

Hi Carol I

Many Thanks for your imput !

Best Regards

Lilo