What unit?

[Stuart Bates]

I have just acquired this photo but it has no details, and on the back Carte Postale. The card is 3.5" wide x 4.9" high.

By zooming in on the badge of the left hand soldier and superimposing another badge I think it might be an artillery unit. The bandoliers would appear to be the 1903 pattern which were superseded in 1908.

Anyone any ideas?

Thanks,

Stuart

[Fromelles]

Stuart,

I think they're Artillery too. British Royal Artillery is my guess from probably WWI though quite possibly pre or indeed could be post war.

You're partially correct about the 08 web equipment superseding the 03 bandolier equipment. It was only the Infantry that handed in their bandoliers for webbing, units such at the Artillery continued to wear it well beyond the First World War.

Dan

Edited February 26, 2009 by Fromelles

[Stuart Bates]

Thanks Dan, I trust we are correct.

Looking at the photo again I noticed the shoulder titles on the two soldiers to the centre of the photo but can't make them out. If I enlarge it more it loses all definition but I would say it could be an H to start with-

I am not big on uniforms but these look like the 1902 pattern and I read that the pleats to the pockets were dropped sometime during WWI as an economy measure. It appears that they were they re-instated at a later date at least for officers.

There also appears to be some insignia on the seated soldiers right sleeve and what is the significance of his lanyard?

Stuart

Edited February 27, 2009 by Stuart Bates

[Fromelles]

Stuart,

The uniforms are the Khaki Drill used in hot climates. The pleats remained on the pockets though there were numerous other changes made. You may be thinking of the Service Dress uniforms that had their pleats removed at one stage.

The arm badge looks to be of a 'horse bit' which would be Farrier (I think)

Too hard to tell what is on the shoulders 'RHA' ???

Dan

[Stuart Bates]

Dan,

You could very well be right about the horse bit insignia and that would make RHA probable for the shoulder title. I had H(AC) stuck in my mind but RHA is more likely.

Well done.

Stuart

[Graham Stewart]

The bit was worn by both the RFA & RHA as it originally indicated 'collar maker' but later known as 'saddler', 'saddletree maker' & 'harness maker. The badge covered all horse units including cavalry, R.Engineers, and ASC.. This also inlcuded R.Signals on it's formation.

[Stuart Bates]

Hi Graham,

I just found out that the farriers wore a horseshoe insignia. There is a book "British Army Proficiency Badges " by Edwards & Langley which sells for up $250.

I also joined a forum (forgotten its name temporarily) as it had photos of speciality badges. However, having registered and gone to the topic the photos still won't display.

Stuart

BTW: www.militarysunhelmets.com

Edited February 27, 2009 by Stuart Bates

[Fromelles]

Stuart,

Yes, you're quite right - it was very early in the morning when I was typing and wasn't exactly sure what the badge stood for, and I just couldn't find the motivation to get up and go through my books, hence the "(I think)" at the end of my spill.

Dan

[Stuart Bates]

Dan & Graham,

thanks to you both for the good information. I want to use this photo in a book that I and a colleague are writing on the Wolseley helmet and was prepared to say "unknown unit etc". Instead I went to my favourite forum and now have something decent to say.

I found a copy of the book on proficiency badges, previously mentioned, at a reasonble price and have ordered it.

Cheers,

Stuart

[Fromelles]

Stuart,

Sounds like an interesting book, I've got photos of troops wearing Wolseley helmets if you're interested.

Dan

[Stuart Bates]

Stuart,

Sounds like an interesting book, I've got photos of troops wearing Wolseley helmets if you're interested.

Dan

Dan,

I could use a couple of good photos. Ones that show troops in action (manouevres) or ones that show a badge, piping etc. to the helmet. I will PM my email address so you can send a few lo-res photos.

Check out www.militarysunhelmets.com for the first book that Peter, a writer in NY, and I have just published.

Stuart

[leigh kitchen]

The unit could be the Honourable Artillery Company - the artillery component wore the Royal Artillery "gun badge" with just a change in the wording on the scrolls, & I can't see a "R" before the "H" on the shoulder strap.

The white lanyard is still worn by the artillery, it had a function originally as a gun lanyard but is now purely an item of insignia.

The khaki drill uniforms would be in many variations, locally produced with variations in the style of pocket flaps, pleats etc, between units.

[Stuart Bates]

Leigh,

I did suggest that the first letter looked like an 'H' but i don't trust my failing eyesight. I really must get myself a magnifying light.

Thanks,

Stuart

[leigh kitchen]

If they are all the same unit, then I'd go for HAC based on the one mans pugaree badge & the others shoulder title - the manith the shoulder title does have a different collar on his tunic to the others, but it's wartime so a certain lack of standardisation within a unit seems likely.