Austria-Hungary Pro deo Patria non-combatant

[Richarddwh]

While I have seen many of the combatant Pro Deo Patria commemorative medals about, this is the first non-combatant once I've had. Any ideas regarding the number of non-combatant versions awarded?

[Richarddwh]

Reverse

[hunyadi]

No idae on actual numbers at this point - perhaps one of our forum members does - but I can say that I could buy about 50 of the combat style before one of these showed up. Is your example marked? Look along the rim there may be a mark of "Bronz" somewhere along there

[Richarddwh]

I've checked the rim but no markings, wouldn't suprise me if it were bronze, seems pretty weighty and solidly struck.

[hunyadi]

Just noticed it :jumping:

[Richarddwh]

Just noticed it

Well done! Attention to detail was never my strong point! At least that confirms what I had hoped, it would have almost been a shame it was made of zinc.

[Guest Rick Research]

:Cat-Scratch: Huh! The combatant ones made of well-silvered broinze have had the mark stamped in the rim just to the right of the suspension ring. :cheers:

[hunyadi]

Huh! The combatant ones made of well-silvered broinze have had the mark stamped in the rim just to the right of the suspension ring.

and I have some that are combattant which are marked in this manner as well.

[Richarddwh]

Among some recently acquired items I came across another non combatant medal it hung incorrectly on the combatant version of the ribbon. I have severe doubts on this one, and would be interested in other's opinions.

It did not seem as heavy as I'd expected, also the unsightly bubbling texture to the surface. At first I thought perhaps it was zinc with a silver wash that had not reacted too well but then I noticed the 'bronz' mark ( as shown in the above original example ). I am struggling to believe it is bronze, too light in weight, so I can only conclude it is a copy. Any thoughts?

Edited November 8, 2010 by Richarddwh

[Richarddwh]

The reverse

[Robin Lumsden]

I am struggling to believe it is bronze, too light in weight, so I can only conclude it is a copy. Any thoughts?

I have one like yours and struggle to believe it is bronze, as well.

Could 'Bronz' refer to the designer of the medal?

Bronz is a (rare) surname in Hungary, I believe.

[hunyadi]

Bronz markings appear on many medals of the Royal Hungarian era. Like the Austrian-Hungarian empire the medals were marked with proof marks to give silver content. As many medals had a silver finish or gold finish there became the need to mark these medals. It was not doen every time, but more of the medals that were produced during the war appear with these BRONZ markings more frequently to denote silver pating, wash or guilding.

[Robin Lumsden]

Bronz markings appear on many medals of the Royal Hungarian era. Like the Austrian-Hungarian empire the medals were marked with proof marks to give silver content. As many medals had a silver finish or gold finish there became the need to mark these medals. It was not doen every time, but more of the medals that were produced during the war appear with these BRONZ markings more frequently to denote silver pating, wash or guilding.

Thanks for that information.

The medal I have is marked 'Bronz', but it looks more like silvered zinc. It's bubbled.

[Richarddwh]

Gents, thank you for your prompt comments. I feel happier about the piece, when I look at the images the details are not too bad.

Hunyadi, I am really intrigued, I can't really see the logical connection with 'bronz' and a zinc based medal with silver wash, especially as my first example is marked the same way but does actually appear to be made of bronze. I would have thought it would have been easier to mark what metal it is rather than what it isn't.

Allowing my imagination to run free... Let us assume this non combatant medal was also issued with the bronz marking on the rim and not on the reverse as seen with some combatant versions. When the decision was made to switch the base material composition from bronze to zinc ( I am guessing towards the later of the 1929-1942 period of availability )a die was selected incorrectly. They chose the die with the bronz marking on the reverse instead of the one with the separately applied marking to the rim. Am I reading too much in to it?

[Magician]

This is my example of this medal. It has no mark BRONZ...

[Magician]

[Richarddwh]

Magician, thanks for posting your one.

Comparing your zinc version with my problematic zinc one, yours has noticeably crisper detail.

The most glaring issue I have with my one, which I only just noticed is a strange continuation of the vertical lines from the left to the right hand side of the shield, and further angled line pattern on the bottom right. I can't believe I didn't notice it earlier, all very odd! :speechless:

[Richarddwh]

Magician, thanks for posting your one.

Comparing your zinc version with my problematic zinc one, yours has noticeably crisper detail.

The most glaring issue I have with my one, which I only just noticed is a strange continuation of the vertical lines from the left to the right hand side of the shield, and further angled line pattern on the bottom right. I can't believe I didn't notice it earlier, all very odd! :speechless: