Bayonet help

[SasaYU]

I am lookong for help about this bayonet.

Can anyone tell me what it is and how to clean and preserve it from further rusting ?

[SasaYU]

Details

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello SasaYU,

You have a Russian, Model 1891 it is hard to tell the pattern from the photo but the first pattern was a little smaller than the second pattern.

These were made to fit the 7.62 MM M1891 Moisin Ngant Infantry rifle and the 7.62 mm M1891 Moisin Nagant Dragoon rifle. There is no scabbard for these as they were intended to be attached to the rifle at all times. However, some cavalry troops carried it on their sword scabbard by two mounts or a built-in sheath.

These were used in both World Wars in great numbers. When found with an all steel scabard it indicates they were captured weapons used by the Germans in WWI. These were also used by Yugoslavia.

(reference: Bayonets of the World by Paul Kiesling, volume one, bayonet number 252.)

Was this a battlefield find?

As to cleaning....I wouldn't do much to it if it were mine. Perhaps other members will have different ideas that they could share. I believe the metal of this bayonet has stabilized and will probably not rust any further.

Regards

Brian

Edited April 18, 2009 by Brian Wolfe

[SasaYU]

Brian,

It is not a battlefield find. I have bought it as it is.

Thank you very much for your detailed answer.

Sasa :cheers:

[leigh kitchen]

Copper brush, such as a rifle cleaning brush, or copper bush in an electric drill. I've used them with good result on rusted blades, having read that they did the job without damaging the steel.

But as has been said, does the bayonet need the teatment?

[SasaYU]

Copper brush, such as a rifle cleaning brush, or copper bush in an electric drill. I've used them with good result on rusted blades, having read that they did the job without damaging the steel. But as has been said, does the bayonet need the teatment?

It is in a condition as you can see it.

I do not have expirience with cleaning bayonets, so I am asking for opinion.

[Brian Wolfe]

Here's the "problem". This bayonet, if memory serves me, was originally a gun-metal blue. You will never clean this bayonet to look like the original, no matter what you do. The "problem" is that you run a risk of over cleaning. I have seen such items cleaned to the point where it looks like it was polished to a glass finish except it was dark brown. If you clean it to this point then it is only good for supporting tomato plants in the garden. It is totally up to you but I would use a very stiff non-metal brush and scrub off any of the loose rust and dirt and then allow it to dry in the sun or under a heat lamp so that it dries completely and be happy with what you have. Even now it is a great artifact but over cleaning it, say with a steel brush or a steel brush wheel in a hand-held drill, will render it garbage. Now, that's my opinion and as I say it is up to you.

Please keep us updated on your decision and the process you finally decide upon. This is how we all learn.

Regards

Brian

[Gordon Craig]

SasaYU,

I agree with Brian. The only reason to do anythng to a rusty item is if it has active IE red rust on the surface. Your's does not have any apparent active rust and any attempt to clean it will make it a much less desirable piece. There is too much pitting on the surface to claen it and find the makers markings etc so it is best left completely alone.

Regards,

Gordon

[SasaYU]

I think I will do as you say.

Should I do something to prevent further rusting ?

[Gordon Craig]

SasaYU,

If you store the bayonet in a reasonable place I E not wet etc. there should be no further rusting. If the surface is black, and from your pictures the surface of your bayonet appears to be that colour, there is no active rust and should cause no further damage. There is no need to do anything to the bayonet other than keep it in a normal room environment.

Regards,

Gordon

[SasaYU]

Thank you Gordon.

I was thinking of spraying it with WD 40.

What do you think ?

[Gordon Craig]

SasaYU,

I would say no to spraying with WD40. Any oil based product will attract dust and dirt out of the air which in turn traps moisture. This promotes rust. Any conservator will tell you that the less you do to "protect" an artifact the better off it is.

Regards,

Gordon

[SasaYU]

OK, thanks for the tip.