SUPERB AMERICAN POLICE SUMMER CAP

[Mervyn Mitton]

I don't have a lot of U.S. police material - however, I have always highly regarded this one. About 1972 one of my friends , he was a det.sgt. in our station's C.I.D. , had a friend from a town just outside of New York visit. He was desperate to have a British helmet, but as we were only issued two he wasn't having much success. Finally my friend appealed to my ' better nature' and obviously, I told him I didn't have one ! To cut a long story short, I parted with my spare and received this attractive cap in exchange. I understand it is a summer cap - very light and with ventilation around the sides. I was told he was a sergeant (equivalent to a British Inspector ?) and the gold band showed this.

Does anyone recognise the badge ?

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Guest Rick Research]

American police "ranks" are a strange mishmash of local usage for anything above Sergeant. Sergeant = sergeant. After that you get Lieutenants or Inspectors or other odd terms depending on local usage.

For instance, every city, town, and village has a "Chief of Police" who can be kitted out-- with no correlation as to size of force or numbers of personnel-- wearing anything from the uniform of a Lieutenant to 5 stars like Eisenhower or Bradley,and with braid and "scrambled eggs" like something out of "The Prisoner of Zenda." The current Chief of the county seat where I live decided to invent his own uniform, which now looks like an Admiral in the former Soviet navy (and is the subject of consierable derision). He also ordered his city force to buy new full dress uniforms (at considerable expense given the limited usage) which are shockingly similar to Third Reich Schutzpolizei outfits only in the traditional shades of blue.

I've never seen a badge which did NOT bear the name of the jurisdiction on it, but then I live out in the shires far from the semi-military big city forces. In most forces a sergeant would wear this sort of military officers' chinstrap on his cap, as the sole designation (besides the stripes on both sleeves) of his rank. Generally shirts under jackets remain blue like ordinary patrol officers, with Lieutenants up wearing white shirts. But again, this varies from place to place, since local forces are local and the State and Federal forces are entirely separate organizations. The State Police all wear identical uniforms, while every town within a state wears whatever they like.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Rick - wonderful info. - please take a photo of the 'admiral' when he's not looking !!

[Guest Rick Research]

He's ALWAYS looking, being preternaturally vain. Even insists that his officers wear their hats indoors at their desks while typing. :speechless:

[Mike Dwyer]

I belive that badge if for the police department of Nassau County, New York.

[Mervyn Mitton]

ks Mike - never thought we'd find that out.

[Guest Rick Research]

Now we need a New Yorker to explain what COUNTY police do. Here in New England, the only county level law enforcement are the Sheriff's departments = jails.

Would Nassau County police be what amounts to the French gendarmerie, patrolling rural areas too small to have individual town police departments?

[Nick]

I think your right on that, my limited understanding is that a county police department covers small townships and municipalities that do not have their own specific police department and have pooled together and share a county department, this may be in addition to the Sheriffs department which usually covers Jails and areas outside town limits.

[Mike Dwyer]

Now we need a New Yorker to explain what COUNTY police do. Here in New England, the only county level law enforcement are the Sheriff's departments = jails.

Would Nassau County police be what amounts to the French gendarmerie, patrolling rural areas too small to have individual town police departments?

Yes, Rick, you're pretty much on the money. I'm not a New Yorker (thank goodness), but county police in just about any state that has them, perform all of the law enforcement functions within the county. I'm originally from Georgia and some of the more metropolitan counties have county police forces. The sheriff runs the jail, provides security for the courts, and serves court papers and warrants, but the county police patrol the roads and perform all the law enforcement duties. The sheriff still has the power and authority to do that, it's just not their "primary" duty any more.

I worked for a sheriff's office in Georgia where the city and county had consolidated into one government. The "former" city police patrol the entire county and the sheriff performs the court and jail functions mentioned above. A lot of folks thought that was all we were allowed to do, but some who ran red lights, were speeding, or driving drunk in my presence found out differently.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Mike - this is how we learn. I had no idea that the Sheriffs ran the local jails . Would this be for longer term prisoners - or, just for overnight ?

[Guest Rick Research]

Days to years. Where I live, state level prisons are for "hard time" and the counties get "lesser offenders." All rather arbitrary when "life" means 18 years and out and convicted murderers get elective cosmetic surgery paid for by taxpayers. All this will change under the new regime as "crime" is redefined, of course.

[Mike Dwyer]

Mike - this is how we learn. I had no idea that the Sheriffs ran the local jails . Would this be for longer term prisoners - or, just for overnight ?

This can vary from state to state. You must remember that in the US, while we are a federal system, each of the 50 states has their own laws and way of doing things. In most states, jails are detention centers for the holding of prisoners until trial. In fact in some more "progressive" places jails are now called Adult Detention Centers. In the county in Georgia where I worked the jail housed both the accused awaiting trial and some minor offenders who were serving short sentences, usually 30-60 days, but some up to 1 year. Anything over 1 year was considered state prison time.

To make it a bit more confusing, we did have a county correctional institution, operated by the county but considered part of the state department of corrections, that housed convicted misdemeanor inmates serving up to 1 year. Those inmates were the ones you normally saw cutting grass out on the highways being watched by correctional officers with shotguns! If they were really good inmates, and worked their way up to trusty status they could work on the back of the county garbage trucks

Here where I live now in Florida, the sheriff in my county runs the jail, but in a neighboring county the board of county commissioners created a county department of corrections and took the jail away from the sheriff and it is operated by the new county department of corrections instead. For years the jail here where I live was run by a private corporation, Corrections Corporation of America, under contract with the county. Problems developed with CCA and the sheriff took the jail over again back in October. CCA still operates a state prison here in my county.

Edited May 10, 2009 by Mike Dwyer

[Mervyn Mitton]

Mike - when you have time, tell us a little about being a dep.sheriff. What were your duties, hours , patrols, arms etc.. To most people outside of the U.S., peacekeeping is only what we see on t.v.. I have stayed in San Diego - did a house exchange with a Dr. and his wife. Would go and live there tomorrow - one serious problem though - it will drop into the Pacific at some time. I also did an exchange with an airline pilot for Air Canada - he and his wife kept a holiday flat in Hawaii - Oahu. A fantastic place and so friendly - however, I shouldn't think it has much in common with the mainland States?

One question that always worries me - why do they send Police in the States out on their own on lonely patrols - I know the answer is prob. manpower - but, surely safer to double-up and have fewer patrols? They always seem so vulnerable, with help perhaps miles away. I used to feel 'lonely' on night patrols on my own - but in London if you put up a call - 'P.C. needs assistance' - you can have 20 cars come to your aid in 5 mins. This was why they carried swords on remote beats at night.

After you answer all of these 'nosy' questions , I will tell you the origin of a sheriff .

Mervyn

[Mike Dwyer]

Mike - when you have time, tell us a little about being a dep.sheriff. What were your duties, hours , patrols, arms etc.. To most people outside of the U.S., peacekeeping is only what we see on t.v.. I have stayed in San Diego - did a house exchange with a Dr. and his wife. Would go and live there tomorrow - one serious problem though - it will drop into the Pacific at some time. I also did an exchange with an airline pilot for Air Canada - he and his wife kept a holiday flat in Hawaii - Oahu. A fantastic place and so friendly - however, I shouldn't think it has much in common with the mainland States?

One question that always worries me - why do they send Police in the States out on their own on lonely patrols - I know the answer is prob. manpower - but, surely safer to double-up and have fewer patrols? They always seem so vulnerable, with help perhaps miles away. I used to feel 'lonely' on night patrols on my own - but in London if you put up a call - 'P.C. needs assistance' - you can have 20 cars come to your aid in 5 mins. This was why they carried swords on remote beats at night.

After you answer all of these 'nosy' questions , I will tell you the origin of a sheriff .

Mervyn

Not to steal your thunder, Mervyn, but are you speaking of the Shire Reeve? I talk about him when I teach my college class "Introduction to Criminal Justice" and speak about the British origins of the American policing system.

My duties as a deputy sheriff in Muscogee County, Georgia consisted primarily of serving court papers, writs, subpoenas, and warrants. As a fully commissioned law enforcement officer I had full police powers, but enforcing the law was more of a secondary duty than a primary one, as the city police patrolled the entire county since we had a consolidated city-county government.

At that time, and we're talking many years ago here, 1974-1977 and 1980-1985 (I was in the army for my first tour 1977-1980) there were three shifts, 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., 4:00 p.m. to Midnight, and Midnight to 8:00 a.m. The day and evening shifts only worked Monday through Friday. We had the weekends off, except for when our weekend duty team was up on the duty roster. There were five weekend duty teams, that covered the day and evening on the weekends, so it worked out that you only had to work every fifth weekend. The midnight shift worked six days on and three off, if I recall correctly. Your first three nights on the midnight shift you were the radio operator back at the office, and the last three nights you were out on patrol. The midnight shift only consisted of 1 sergeant, 1 deputy on the radio, and 1 on patrol. There was another deputy, not on the same schedule who worked courthouse security and patrolled the courthouse, a 14 story building, with a parking garage and two 2-story wings attached.

Day and evening patrol would hit the streets with a stack of civil papers (such as divorce petitions, lawsuits, etc.) witness subpoenas and jury duty summonses. On the evening shift we would sometimes pull out old arrest warrants that had been filed unserved because the warrant squad detectives couldn't locate the offender. This was eventually stopped because we were embarassing the detectives by arresting nearly all of the offenders right where they were looked for before! If someone committed a traffic offense or violated the law in front of us, we could take action, if we wished, but there was no real pressure to do so. The sheriff did not want us knocking on people's doors after 9:00 p.m. so we'd mostly look for drunk drivers from 9:00 to 11:00 p.m. I made a fair number of DUI arrest on the evening and midnight shifts. I also wrote traffic tickets fairly regularly for speeding, running red lights, etc., but not nearly as often as I did as a city policeman.

On the day shift we had to assist the jail and court staff with prisoner transport when the prisoners had to be brought to the courthouse, which was almost a mile from the jail. On Fridays there were arraignments and guilty pleas so we would bring prisoners up to the courthouse by bus, escorted by several patrol cars. We would have to help inside the courtrooms with prisoner control since there weren't enough bailiffs to do so.

Another duty we performed was the transportation of mental patients who had been committed to a state mental hospital by order of a judge or a doctor. We usually picked them up at the hospital, but sometimes we had to go to their homes, which was always an interesting experience to say the least.

On the midnight shift we would do home checks for people who were out of town on vacation and look for DUIs. We also would periodically drive around the outside perimeter of the jail too.

We could listen to the city police radio traffic, so we also often backed up city officers if we were in the vicinity of their call.

At that time we were armed with a Smith & Wesson Model 27 revolver, which is a very large, heavy .357 magnum revolver built on a .44 magnum frame. Each car also contained a Remington Model 870 12 guage pump shotgun. I usually wore a small snub-nose .38 special revolver in an ankle holster as a back-up weapon. I was lucky enough to never need it. When I was promoted to sergeant in the administration division where I was the desk sergeant in the office, I wore a Smith & Wesson Model 19 .357 magnum revolver with a 2.5 inch barrel because it was a lot less bulk to cart around in the office.

Hope I didn't bore you too much with all this. I probably left some things out. If I think of them, I'll post them later.

Oh yeah, you asked about having 1 man per car. You are correct, of course, manpower is the issue. You can field twice the officers if you only put one per car. I read a study several years ago concerning that issue. The study found that officers in two-officer cars tended to take riskier chances that a lone officer wouldn't take, and thus got injured more often than single officers because they misjudged their level of power and invincibility. I, personally, never had a problem with being alone and was very careful about what I got into without calling for backup. :speechless1:

Edited May 11, 2009 by Mike Dwyer

[Mervyn Mitton]

Mike, your post here is - I'm sure - of great interest. There are similarities in duties wherever you live in the World, but it is good to see them detailed. Mind you, whilst I'm impressed with your knowledge on Br. police origins, I shan't tell you any more about Sheriffs !! By the way - where did a 'posse' come from???

I think I prefer the hours you used to keep - we had a three shift system (now all changed) and did 6a.m. to 2p.m. and 2p.m.to 10.p.m. for six alternate weeks and then, three weeks of nights 10p.m.-6a.m.. I could always understand why so many Br. police marriages collapse - they just never see each other.

Once again, thanks for a great post.

[Guest Rick Research]

"By the way - where did a 'posse' come from???"

You mean after the hundred was roused by hue and cry?

Always seemed strange to me here, in NEW England, that we never had the term posse from The Olde Countrie. Our/your Train Band served as law enforcement before turning into the militia.

[Michael Johnson]

Anything over 1 year was considered state prison time.

Canada being a federal system, anything two years' or more is federal penitentiary. The standard maximum sentence for"jail" time is two years less a day. In Ontario counties in the more populated areas are now regional municipalities. So living in Oakville, I'm protected by the Halton Regional Police Service, who also police Burlington, Milton, and Halton Hills. However, the Ontario Provincial Police patrol the highways, and handle specialized crimes. Interestingly, the O.P.P. recently reverted to black and white cruisers, and ditched the straw "Mountie" hats.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Shire Reeve was the older Saxon term - it became Sheriff and he was the King's representitive for the County.He ceased to have military power in Edward 6th, reign. Now, the Queen's rep. is the Lord Lieutenant - he wears a special uniform and there is one - with a deputy - for each County. She is always met by him on Her arrival in each County. The Hue & Cry comes from the duty all Freemen had to uphold the law and to raise the alarm if they saw a crime being commited - if they failed to do this , they could be punished. The Posse Comitatus - or, gathering of the people, could be called by the Sheriff to hunt down an offender - again only Freemen could take part. I have never quite understood how these old titles came into being in the States. I assume it came with the early settlers, but, even with that explanation, it is not clear why they used these words.

Even the title constable - probably, came from the Latin 'comes stabuli' or, master of the horse. Obviously a title of importance. With the middle ages a constable had become the man in charge of a castle - and there

is still the title of Constable of the Tower. Appointed by the Queen and usually someone like a retired Field Marshall.

Petty Constables were part of the old leet courts and later became Parish Constables. The word Police was not used officially, until the Dublin Police Act of 1792.

Now..... what has this to do with an American police cap???

[Mervyn Mitton]

Shire Reeve was the older Saxon term - it became Sheriff and he was the King's representitive for the County.He ceased to have military power in Edward 6th, reign. Now, the Queen's rep. is the Lord Lieutenant - he wears a special uniform and there is one - with a deputy - for each County. She is always met by him on Her arrival in each County. The Hue & Cry comes from the duty all Freemen had to uphold the law and to raise the alarm if they saw a crime being commited - if they failed to do this , they could be punished. The Posse Comitatus - or, gathering of the people, could be called by the Sheriff to hunt down an offender - again only Freemen could take part. I have never quite understood how these old titles came into being in the States. I assume it came with the early settlers, but, even with that explanation, it is not clear why they used these words.

Even the title constable - probably, came from the Latin 'comes stabuli' or, master of the horse. Obviously a title of importance. With the middle ages a constable had become the man in charge of a castle - and there

is still the title of Constable of the Tower. Appointed by the Queen and usually someone like a retired Field Marshall.

Petty Constables were part of the old leet courts and later became Parish Constables. The word Police was not used officially, until the Dublin Police Act of 1792.

Now..... what has this to do with an American police cap???

[Guest Rick Research]

It's all "your" fault-- or they'd be speaking Dutch. :rolleyes:

[Mervyn Mitton]

The British are never to blame - never have been and , never will be.....

[Mike Dwyer]

I apologize, Mervyn, for getting your thread off track!

I'm with you, I don't think your police work schedule was anything to be overly fond of. When I was a deputy sheriff we worked each shift, day, evening and midnight, for 3 months at a time. When I was a city police officer, prior to being a deputy sheriff, we also worked our shift for 3 months at a time, but our work days and hours were a bit different.

Probably my favorite work hours was when I was a US Army Military Policeman at Fort Benning, Georgia. We worked a 10 day shift, the first 6 days were on patrol, either 8:00 a.m. to Midnight or Midnight to 8:00 a.m., then on the last 4 days we were in training all day. This meant every 2 weeks we always had Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday off.

Rick, although Mervyn has already explained posse comitatus, in my criminal justice textbook that I use to teach my class from it explains it as "the power of the people." Somehow it got shortened to posse. About the only time you hear the full term today in the US is in military circles whenever military law enforcement officials get concerned about handling civilian offenders, because they become worried about violating 18 U.S. Code section 1385, commonly referred to as the Posse Comitatus Act. This act was enacted after the War Between the States in 1878 because of the horrible abuses that occured from using federal troops to enforce civilian law in the Southern states. Basically the Posse Comitatus Act forbids the US military from enforcing civlilian law. There are, of course, ways to get around some of this, as is often done.

When I was an Army CID Agent, if we had a criminal suspect who was non-military we had to carefully document how his/her conduct was connected to the army, and we had to notify the FBI so they could assume jurisdiction, which they usually did declaring a "joint investigation." Which meant they let us continue to do most of the work and then they took everything at the end and wrote up their report.

[Mervyn Mitton]

I have never heard of this use of the name - most interesting - the powers it conferred sound almost like our writ of Habeus Corpus ?

To have this contact and exchange of info. is so good - the Worldwide sub-forum is an ideal way to do it without travel. I hope we get a lot more items like the Hungarian and Bulgarian uniforms - things you usually see, only if you visit the country - and, a museum!

As for getting me off track - never a difficult thing !! When I could walk, I would show customers items in the shop and then turn round and find I had ten others listening !! Mervyn