HISTORIC CROSS BELTS & POUCHES

[Mervyn Mitton]

We have been seeing some really good - and rare items recently. However, I haven't seen any cross belts and pouches.

This is a Victorian example - possibly Boer War, but, could easily be much older. This is for a Surgeon - Doctors did not have the additional badge on the front of the belt. There are always exceptions and I would value input on this ?

Cross belts originally were used to hang swords from - later, with the early wheel and flint lock muskets, they added a pouch to carry balls - the powder was always in a horn. Later, when they used to carry pre-made up cartridges the officers , also had a pouch. These were always more decorative and for Regiments often had the arms in gilt on the front. Later they were added to full dress uniform and by the time this one was made ,they were exquisite (must remember this word for Scrabble!!) works of art.

Needless to say, they are very collectable and very expensive. I hope other members will show any they have, and I will add some more examples at a later date.

(Will has shown a number of Sth.African pouches in his Police postings.)

[Mervyn Mitton]

All meatal is heavily gilded - and on this quality the under metal will be silver.

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

This is the badge for the front strap of the cross belt.

[Mervyn Mitton]

This was obviously the owner's idea to have these fittings inserted into the pouch. Makes it a useful wallet and notebook.

To see a puch and crossbelt being worn see under World Police sub-forum Indian Uniform.

[Stuart Bates]

I used to have 3 cross belts with pouches but now only have this one from the reign of William IV so this dates it to 1830 - 1837.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Stuart Bates

[Stuart Bates]

[Stuart Bates]

[Stuart Bates]

The most interesting facet of this belt is the paper label inside the pouch which is to Hawkes Moseley & Co. of Silvester St, The Strand. I don't know when Moseley was dropped from the company name but perhaps mid 19th Century.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Stuart Bates

[Stuart Bates]

Mervyn,

I thought medical officers had a belt and pouch with 3 or 4 gold stripes. I could not find a reference to an undress belt and pouch.

Here is an RAMC example that I once had and is Edward VII and Indian Army.

Stuart

Edited May 24, 2009 by Stuart Bates

[Stuart Bates]

[Stuart Bates]

Edited May 24, 2009 by Stuart Bates

[Stuart Bates]

Mervyn,

found this in the 1864 DRs -

"Shoulder Belt - black morocco, with three rows of gold embroidery for Director General; with two rows for Inspector and Deputy Inspector General of Hospitals, and black patent leather for all other ranks..."

Now the 1874 DRs state that for a Surgeon Major that "on state ocassions, at balls and in Cavalry regiments" the gold embroidered belts/pouches were to be worn. At other times a plain black Morocco belt and pouch. Army Hospital corps had a brown Morocco leather belt and pouch.

The 1883 DRs for the Army Hospital Corps give a brown belt but a black pouch with the Royal Cypher and Crown in gilt on the centre of the flap.

My head hurts!

The 1900 DRs don't mention any belt/pouch which does not have gold stripes so yours is much earlier. I will attempt to dig up more information later but hope someone more au fait with the subject will step in

Stuart

Edited May 24, 2009 by Stuart Bates

[Mervyn Mitton]

Always hard to date these pieces accurately - the 'old girl' reigned for so long. Also, despite regulations, local custom could always 'step-in'. They were very autocratic in those days. The gold stripes on the belt that you show were almost badges of rank ? I like the old label on yours - so often they get torn off.

Do you know the history of the last example you show. Usually when the two 'prickers' are on the cross belt , it showed infantry - since the prickers represented the cartridge piercers.