rare bayonet.

[Thomas Symmonds]

Hello Gentlemen,

A bayonet from my collection, pictured below, might not be particularly rare, (it is a shortened Italian "baionetta" M1870 known as the 1870/15), but I am interested to know if anyone has an original full / un-shortened version to show. Most of the 1870 & 1870/87 patterns were shortened during WWI as they were considerd to long and unwieldly (blade length of 517mm). The hook quillons were shortened too.

A first pattern scabbard to show, mine's a second pattern, would be great too.

regards,

Thomas

[Thomas Symmonds]

Hello all.

Sorry, this thread seems to be hoping around a bit as the replies and questions come in.

Back to the Yatagan pattern ...

Mervyn you might remember this one. This is the 1856/58 bayonet. It differs from the one mentioned earlier in that it has no hooked quillon. I am not sure wether they ever came out with hooked quillons (?). It misses out being a perfect 1856 because the leaf spring is attached by a screw rather than a rivet.

regards,

Thomas

[Mervyn Mitton]

Thomas - it is interesting how much greater the curves are in your yataghan, when compared with Theodor's. However, interestingly, they both have the rubberised non-slip grip we were using on swords and bayonets of that period. Does that mean Theodor's has British origins ?

Although they were often given to Sgts., Durban Light Infantry were gven them in the Boer War - I suppose a case of using up old stock on the Colonials. The guard on the armoured train carrying Winston Churchill , which the Boers captured at Frere in Natal, had DLI included in the compliment - so, a few are around. I saw a very nice example at my talk to Rotary, Durban North, last evening and I think it will be coming-in.

[rumjar]

this is the best bayonet made but why is it not rare. the 1903.

Edited June 22, 2009 by rumjar

[Mervyn Mitton]

Joe - superb condition and I think this pattern date is fairly rare. How do you keep all your bayonets in such a lovely state - is it TLC - or, do you 'cheat' and buff ??

[rumjar]

Joe - superb condition and I think this pattern date is fairly rare. How do you keep all your bayonets in such a lovely state - is it TLC - or, do you 'cheat' and buff ??

hi merv,

i just oil them every month. i do have rusty ones that i picked up on the SOMME.

They are past a drop of oil.

joe.

[Mervyn Mitton]

I have always taken this bayonet to be the Carcano - Italian and basically the Infantry pattern. The Portuguese also used a similar bayonet , with brass trimming on the scabbard. Having looked again at the Crown, I am now a little undecided as to whether it is Italian or, Portuguese. I will post a few pictures and will be interested in comments - Joe, what do you think ? Stamped in the leather is - ACI 1910 or, 19010. So, it could be a date or, an armoury number.

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

[peter monahan]

Another interesting, ca 1915 Bulgarian dress bayonet. Some say for Sergeants, some - for Generals. Probably the second.

Wouldn't a general wear a sword as opposed to a bayonet?

Peter

[Thomas Symmonds]

Mervyn, I would agree with your initial take, that it is an Italian M1891 (Carcano), just with a bent quillon.

Interesting that your bayonet has brass-mounted scabbard, initial issue I think. I have only seen the all-steel variety.

regards

Thomas

[Mervyn Mitton]

Thanks Thomas. I think I am now in agreement that it is an early Italian Carcano. That must have been the design with the up-turned quillion.