Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) Dear forumites,I'd like to introduce to you a nice almost named complete group. Very likely I will be able to get some more information from the Kriegsarchiv in Munich.Hauptmann der Reserve Wilhelm L?ll, 1. Feldartillerie-Regiment ?Prinzregent Luitpold?, geboren in M?nchen am 14.10.1888.Ordensspange: ? Preu?en, Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse 1914-1924 am K?mpferband (OEK 1904), E gs/S? Bayern, Milit?r-Verdienst-Orden 4. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern (OEK 412), S Medaillon in Gold? Bayern, Milit?r-Verdienst-Orden 4. Klasse mit Schwertern (OEK 413), S? Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer (OEK 3803/1), Hersteller R.V. Pforzheim 34? Bayern, Milit?rische Jubil?umsmedaille mit Krone und Jahreszahlen ?1839-1909? am Band, 1902-1912 (OK 518/1), Br ox? Bayern, Goldene Hochzeits-Jubil?umsmedaille, 1918 (OEK 479), KMAndere Gegenst?nde: ? 6er Miniaturkette im (besch?digten) Originaletui des Juweliers Gebr. Hemmerle und ? 2 Feldspangen (5er und 6er)? 1 Verwundetenabzeichen in Schwarz (OEK 3293)? 1 bayerische DA 2. Kl. f?r 24 Dienstjahre 1906-1921 (OEK 525), ohne BandUrkunden:? 28.10.1909, Jub.-Med. mit Krone? 16.04.1914, MVO4 mit X ? 17.05.1918, MVO4 mit Kr. u. X ? 23.09.1926, Kyffh?user Kriegsdenkm?nze? 01.02.1935, Ehrenzeichen f?r Frontk?mper 1914-18 ? 25.08.1936, Verw. Abz. in Schwarz I'd appreciate your comments or eventually additional information on Hptm Wilhelm L?ll and his family.Ciao,Claudio Edited June 3, 2009 by Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Back of the medal bar: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) Here's the miniature chain.Some more information (Wikipedia D) about the unit where L?ll served... now I can explain also the crown with the Luitpold Jubil?umsmedaille... ;-)RegimentDas 1. Feldartillerie-Regiment ?Prinzregent Luitpold? war ein Verband der 1. Division der bayerischen Armee. Der Friedensstandort des Regiments war M?nchen. Zusammen mit dem 7. Feldartillerieregiment bildete sie die 1. Feldartilleriebrigade.Das Regiment hatte vom 1. August 1914 bis Kriegsende insgesamt vier Kommandeure, Oberst Arnold M?ller war der Erste. Danach folgten Franz von Bomhard ab dem 1. Dezember 1914, Rudolf Ritter von Xylander ab dem 12. Juli 1917 sowie Eugen Peringer ab dem 18. M?rz 1918. Die drei letztgenannten Kommandeure bekleideten alle den Dienstgrad Oberstleutnant.GeschichteDas Regiment wurde 1824 aufgestellt. Zu Beginn des Ersten Weltkriegs war das Regiment als Teil der Divisionsartillerie der 1. Infanterie-Division der 6. Armee im Westen eingesetzt. Weitere Stationen des Regiments im Laufe des Weltkrieges sind mit denen der 1. Infanterie-Division identisch.Tradition nach 1918Die Tradition des Regiments ?bernahm nach dem Ersten Weltkrieg die 6. Batterie des (bayerischen) Artillerie-Regiments 7 der Reichswehr. Edited June 3, 2009 by Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 5er Feldspange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 6er Feldspange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Back of the ribbon bars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 DA for 24 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Document for the Luitpold Jubil?umsmedaille mit Krone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Document for the MVO4X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Document for the MVO4X mit Krone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Document for the Kyffh?user KDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Document for the FEK... I can't read the s?tterlin handwriting on this document: what does it say that his profession is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Document for the Wound badge in black... look at the date! :speechless1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Look what I found... interesting!!!The list of the casualties of the 1. FAR "Prinzregent Luitpold"http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/Verlustliste...bay_far_wk1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 There is also a book about this Regiment: has someone it and could he see for me if there are any information about Wilhelm L?ll? Thanks!ClaudioXylander, Ritter von:Geschichte des 1. Feldartillerie-Regiments Prinz-Regent Luitpold - IV.Band 1911 bis 1920. Erinnerungsbl?tter deutscher Regimenter - Ausz?ge aus den amtlichen Kriegstageb?chern - Herausgegeben f?r den Anteil der bayerischen Armee vom bayerischen Kriegsarchiv - Bayerische Armee Band 73 - Das K. B. Feldartillerie-Regiment Prinz-Regent Luitpold IV.Band, Verlag Max Schick M?nchen, , 1931,. XVI, 590 S., Skizzen, 176 Lichtdruckbilder, OLeineneinband Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W McSwiggan Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Great collection!Interesting that he won MVO and later with Kr. but no indication on mini of the EKI.Looks as though he survived the war from the list shown at link. Wonder why he was not an EKI recipient.Was this common in Bavarian formations (especially for reservists)?Another example of aristocratic infighting?Look what I found... interesting!!!The list of the casualties of the 1. FAR "Prinzregent Luitpold"http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/Verlustliste...bay_far_wk1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernhard H.Holst Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Document for the FEK... I can't read the s?tterlin handwriting on this document: what does it say that his profession is?Hello:His profession given is that of "Prokurist". For those unfamiliar with this it indicates that a Prokurist is authorized to conduct business for a company including signing on behalf of a company which would be binding.Bernhard H. Holst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Thanks for the nice words. Obviously L?ll survived the war because there are 3 documents dated after WWI (Kyffh?user KDM 1926, FEK 1935 and Wound Badge 1936). Yes, it is very strange that the Iron Cross 1st class didn't come with the group; that doesn't mean that he didn't receive it... That could be researchable with the Kriegsarchiv in M?nchen.Ciao,Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Hello:His profession given is that of "Prokurist". For those unfamiliar with this it indicates that a Prokurist is authorized to conduct business for a company including signing on behalf of a company which would be binding.Bernhard H. HolstThanks Bernhard! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W McSwiggan Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Oops - that he survived was pretty obvious, huh?I've seen a number of images of mini-chains with representations of the EKI whereas this one does not. I am making the assumption (and only an assumption) that he was not an EKI recipient. I find this interesting. I know that the Hohenzollern often fell prey to intramural wrangling between Prussia and Bavaria (one case was that of Ritter von Schleich while all the other PlM/MMJO double recipients did receive it) but I was not aware of such cases extending to the EKI.Thanks for the nice words. Obviously L?ll survived the war because there are 3 documents dated after WWI (Kyffh?user KDM 1926, FEK 1935 and Wound Badge 1936). Yes, it is very strange that the Iron Cross 1st class didn't come with the group; that doesn't mean that he didn't receive it... That could be researchable with the Kriegsarchiv in M?nchen.Ciao,Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 He wasn't a reserve officer-- he was a regular.He was also an EXTREMELY naughty man. Not only could he--or anyone else--NOT wear BOTH the BMV4X and the BMV4XmKr (which required the physical return of the 1st award-- I've posted receipts for same under "Bielke") but he acquired his improper BMV4X much later since it is a late war silver gilt type and what he got in 1914 would have been a gold centered one.This was very common in the wild unregulated 1920s, but to have gotten away with that after 1935 is You should be able to get his Auszug aus der Kriegsrangliste from Munich.Leutnant 26.10.11Oberleutnant 09.07.15Hauptmann either late 1918 or char. on dischargeVery nice group to a naughty person!The pre-1906 model XXIV may have belonged to his ? father-- the only other L?ll I find was a General. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley1965 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Dear forumites,I'd like to introduce to you a nice almost named complete group. Very likely I will be able to get some more information from the Kriegsarchiv in Munich.Hauptmann der Reserve Wilhelm L?ll, 1. Feldartillerie-Regiment ?Prinzregent Luitpold?, geboren in M?nchen am 14.10.1888.Ordensspange: ? Preu?en, Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse 1914-1924 am K?mpferband (OEK 1904), E gs/S? Bayern, Milit?r-Verdienst-Orden 4. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern (OEK 412), S Medaillon in Gold? Bayern, Milit?r-Verdienst-Orden 4. Klasse mit Schwertern (OEK 413), S? Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer (OEK 3803/1), Hersteller R.V. Pforzheim 34? Bayern, Milit?rische Jubil?umsmedaille mit Krone und Jahreszahlen ?1839-1909? am Band, 1902-1912 (OK 518/1), Br ox? Bayern, Goldene Hochzeits-Jubil?umsmedaille, 1918 (OEK 479), KMAndere Gegenst?nde: ? 6er Miniaturkette im (besch?digten) Originaletui des Juweliers Gebr. Hemmerle und ? 2 Feldspangen (5er und 6er)? 1 Verwundetenabzeichen in Schwarz (OEK 3293)? 1 bayerische DA 2. Kl. f?r 24 Dienstjahre 1906-1921 (OEK 525), ohne BandUrkunden:? 28.10.1909, Jub.-Med. mit Krone? 16.04.1914, MVO4 mit X ? 17.05.1918, MVO4 mit Kr. u. X ? 23.09.1926, Kyffh?user Kriegsdenkm?nze? 01.02.1935, Ehrenzeichen f?r Frontk?mper 1914-18 ? 25.08.1936, Verw. Abz. in Schwarz I'd appreciate your comments or eventually additional information on Hptm Wilhelm L?ll and his family.Ciao,ClaudioClaudio,What are the last two medals and are they Bavarian or what country? Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Hi Rick,Yes, I think you are right... he was a regular officer... I don't know why I came up with it. Mmmmhh... interesting that you noticed that the father might have been a General. The auction house was selling also other stuff from the same family like RAO and KO of Wilhelm's father who actually was a General... you have quite a talented "nose" to find sich interesting details... I think that the DA XXIV, like you very rightly deduced, was just thrown in my group, maybe by mistake, but I think it belonged to his father. Furthermore I got also the Wound Badge in black... @ Doc: yes, the two medals at the end are Bavarian... like in the German description says... Bayern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 ? Papa L?ll from the astonishingly magnificent Stammliste of K.B. Feldart Rgt 2-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Thanks Rick! Here's also a link of Wikipedia D about the 2. KB FAR:http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/2._K%C3%B6nig...llerie-RegimentCiao,Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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