Austrian Second Republic Ribbon bar with a twist

[Gordon Craig]

I received my first Austrian Second Republic ribbon bar a few days ago. It came on a uniform. The ribbon bar and the rank and time frame for this tunic would seem to match well. I am some what curious as to the yellow and black ribbon in the centre. As far as I can find in my reference material, there is no ribbon like this in the Second Republic awards. It does exist though in the First Republic awards and is used on the 5, 12, and 25 year Long Service Awards. This ribbon bar would indicate that the awards on it, reading from your right to left are:

First ribbon - 5 Year Long Service for the Second Republic (45mm); Second ribbon - possibly 5 or 12 Years Long Service of the First Republic (40mm); Third Ribbon - Silver Medal for Service to the Austrian Republic of the Second Republic (45mm).

I have two questions related to the ribbons on this bar;

1- was the wearing of First Republic awards authorized during the Second Republic? At least in the early years.

2-during the First Republic, were the 12 and 25 year awards indicated by a rosette or some other device, when worn on a ribbon bar, or was the ribbon for each award worn?

I posted this question on another forum and had one answer suggesting possibilities but no firm answer. Following the other persons post I had this thought.

Since I started this thread, I have been looking at other possible scenarios for this ribbon bar. Looking at this bar another way, the Long Service ribbon for the First Republic could mean he was in the Austrian armed forces long enough prior to 1938 to be awarded the 5 Year Long Service award for the First Republic. For discussion purposes, lets say he first enlisted in 1932. He is awarded the First Republic's 5 year Long Service award in 1937. If he stayed in when the Austrian armed forces was absorbed by the Wehrmacht, he gets no credit for the years served from 1938 to 1945. In 1955 he reenlists and serves at least five years and is awarded the 5 Year Long Service award for the Second Republic. . He would probably be awarded the 5 year Long Service award for the Second republic in 1960/61. In 1960/61 it would have been 28 or 29 years since he joined the armed forces originally. A very plausible scenario I think and one that would fit an ex Wehrmacht soldier who enlisted in the Bundesheer. A lot of them did.

Regards,

Gordon

Here is a picture of the ribbon bar.

[Gordon Craig]

Just in case you are curious, a picture of the tunic the ribbon bar was pinned to. It appears to be an M65 model tunic.

[Guest Rick Research]

The second ribbon is an exact match to 1st Republic (I know nothing of 2nd Republic awards) military long service crosses. The black stripe was much thinner than the black edges on Imperial long services.

[Gordon Craig]

Rick,

Thanks for confirming what I said in my post about the middle ribbon being for a First Republic Long Service medal. I did not know about the black stripes being a different size on the AH ribbons and on the First Republic ribbons. Very good information thanks. Second Republic ribbons are no problem because I have very good reference material on them.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

The second ribbon is an exact match to 1st Republic (I know nothing of 2nd Republic awards) military long service crosses. The black stripe was much thinner than the black edges on Imperial long services.

Following on from Rick's comment, I thought it might be of interest to some to post pictures of the A/H Long Service awards showing the ribbon and First Republic Long Service awards for comparison purposes. Both photos are taken from "EHRENZEICHEN UND ORDEN IM OSTERREICH DER ZWISCHENKRIEGSZEIT 1918-1938" by Gunter Erik Schmidt.

Regards,

Gordon

The First Republic awards.

[Gordon Craig]

The A/H awards.

[Hugh]

Here's another look at some of the Imperial crosses. I got them in the '60's in Innsbruek, and just love them.

AUSTRIA-HUNGARY - Officer's Long Service Cross - 50 Years, EF

Hugh

The Magpie

Edited July 4, 2009 by Hugh

[Hugh]

And the reverse

AUSTRIA-HUNGARY - Officer's Long Service Cross - 50 Years, EF

[Hugh]

These are so beautifully made.

AUSTRIA-HUNGARY - Officer's Long Service Cross - 25 Years, EF

[Hugh]

I assume from the lack of crown that this is not Imperial, although it was sold together with the other two. No representations were made, and I didn't think to ask. (It was a long time ago.)

AUSTRIA-HUNGARY - Soldier's Long Service Cross - 5 Years, Mint

Edited July 4, 2009 by Hugh

[Hugh]

Perhaps the double black stripe means 2nd Republic?

AUSTRIA-HUNGARY - Soldier's Long Service Cross - 5 Years, Mint

[Gordon Craig]

Hugh,

The ribbons on the Second Republic Long Service awards are very different from those of Imperial times and in the First Republic. The yellow and black ribbon was no longer used. The first ribbon on the bar I posted, on the right as viewed by you, is a 3rd Class (five years) Long Service award for the Second Republic. All Second Republic Long Service ribbons use the basic colour combination of blue and white. 2nd Class (15 years) which is similar to the 5 year ribbon but has a wide white stripe in the centre. 1st class (25 years) is a white ribbon with two wide blue srtipes on each side.

The long service medal with the yellow ribbon and two narronw black stripes probably is Imperial, there is nothing like it in the First Republic medal ribbons, but I do not know anything about it.

Regards,

Gordon

Edited July 5, 2009 by Gordon Craig

[Hugh]

Thanks for the input. Seems like a bit of a mystery. Perhaps there were different ribbons for Army vs. police? Or some other branch difference? Maybe it's a long-forgotten KuK Navy cross?

Hugh