Aircraft Machine guns

[Hinrik]

Hi guys,

Here are some of my Aircraft MG?s

All but one, have history behind them....

This photo...top...ANM2 .30 cal from a crashed RAF Hudson, of the 269th Squadron, which sunks a few U-boats. Was recoverd from the wreck by an Icelandic Doctor, educated in Nazi Prussia. He was often called an Icelandic Nazi, but I doubt that to be true.

2 guns in middle are Lewis 1918?s WWI guns, both used on Icelandic fishing ships in WWII as AA defence against Luftwaffe planes.

Bottom .50 cal is a nice gun from rare P-40N Warhawk fighterplane that crashed in Vestmannaeyjar islands, 1944. The Pilot, Major Mark J. Mourne, was the squadron leader of the 33rd. Fighter squadron. I have some documents with his signature.

I mainly collect items with history behind them...and I really go "out of my way" to track them down. The old saying in the USA....buy the item not history...does not apply in Iceland...there are so few collectors here..hence no people trying to scam you.

Regards

Edited December 4, 2005 by Hinrik

[Hinrik]

Left hand side of my modest little cabinet.

Bottom M2 .50 cal comes from a B-17 that crashed on ferry flight to Iceland, 7th may 1943. The gun came into the nets of an Icelandic fishing ship in 1994. I tracked down the crew of the ship, and the 1st shipmate gave me the longitudte / latitude, were they got the B-17?s wreck. I cross referanced that with my WWII crash files, and came up with a B17 that was on ferry flight to Iceland.

They were most likely lost ( freash navigator from school) and made an emergency landing next to a convoy of UK ships heading to Canada. They were initally shoot at by the ships!! They crashlanded in the high waves, 8 out of the 10 men crew were rescued under hard circumstanses. HMS Onslaught and HMS Faulkner rescued the men.

In 1997 I meet one of the survivors, the Flight Engineer, Don Atkinson, He gave me the life vest, he was wearing when the B-17 crashed. The crew called "the aircraft Big Moose" in the name of there tall Captain, James Musser.

I have now got in contact with 5 out of the 8 men rescued.

Look at the big color photo next to the gun, that is Elroy Humphreys, the B-17 bombadire.

Other guns:

Top ANM2 from a P-39 Aircobra that was in airbattle with a German plane 1942.

2nd from top: turret gun from a crashed RAF Hudson of the 269th squadron.

3rd from top: a rare MG-15 Luftwaffe MG, sadly this is the only gun I dont know the history off.

Hope you like this little collection of interesting MG?s

Hinrik

[Hinrik]

ANM2 .50 cal dateplate on P40N gun. This was the third gun in the right hand wing.

[Hinrik]

Please note, that the fire control group on the P40N M2 gun is just there for display. This particular M2 fire control assy comes from yet another B-17 that crashed into a Glacier here in 1944, an is now finnally "coming from the Ice"

I need to mount a "rescue ops" next summer, but there are at least 3 M2 guns still at the crash site. Problem is, it takes about 4 hours of heavy hiking to goto the site, and having a 30 kg (60 lbs) gun in your backpack is not the ideal situations!

Hinrik

[Hinrik]

Restored P-35 Radom

This gun has interesting history behind it. It has always been called the "Spy pistol"

I got the gun in 1996. I started to trace the previous owners. (This is possible in a small country like Iceland) and I got in touch with an old man that says he owned the gun in 1946!

He is very secretive about me asking him questions, but does admit, that the gun was in the hands of a Dannish Cook, that was the cook of a German family, living in the remote fishing village Isafjordur, in 1940?s. The old man claims the woman was in the NSDAP. And that there was a radio transceiver in the house! The gun is a very early Polish production, with a low serial number of 18.0XX out of about 400.000 built.

Unfrtunatelly the gun has been reblued and restored, but it shoots fine!

Hinrik

[Hinrik]

Another nice historic firearm.....

Aluminum flare pistol from Heinkel He-111, serial number 03900. Crashed in Iceland 22 may 1941.

The Iron Cross 1st class is of the pilot: Hans Joachim Durfeld. Maker is L-58, Rudolf Suval, marked on the screw back disk only. Took me 6 years to "convince" the old man that owned it to pass it off.

There were some steel helmets recovered from the crash site. A He-111 would normally have a crew of 3, but 4 bodies were found! After the war, a German offcial came to Iceland looking for the 5th body!

We suspect this aircraft might of been dropping spys in the country. Before 1991, one of out top German Luftwaffe flights historian, Hordur Geirsson, contacted the UK archives, asking for info, but was told this was under a 50 year secret act. In 1991, Hordur proudly sent a request for info, but was told that the He-111 info had been changed to a 75 year secret!

Hinrik

[Guest Rick Research]

Are the machine guns deactivated?

I don't assume there is a "Lewis gun crime wave" up there, but the people who write laws (at least here) don't need any common sense about such things.

If those were active where I live ("the cradle of American liberty" no less) you'd go to jail for 20 years EACH, for possession.

And no, we've never had any machine gun crime HERE either (not that it matters). Sigh.

[Hinrik]

Rick,

All of the MG?s are deactivated and licenced. Normally MG?s are banned here, but due to my museum work and the guns being historic, I have an exception.

I think I remmber just a handful of firearm related crimes here in the past 15-20 years, although there are a lot of guns in this country.

The Lewis guns are all over, because after the war the Fishing company started using the guns to shoot seals and whales. Coast guard was not happy with that idea and confiscated the magazines, making the guns only single shot. Somewhere in the Coast guard storage room, there might be a big pile of rare 97rd Lewis magazines!

Regards

Hinrik

[Guest Rick Research]

Well, I'm glad to know you're in no legal peril!

[Hinrik]

Guys,

I figure I have made an interesing thread here.....nobody else care to comment besides Rick on the the leagality of my collection?

hinrik

[David Gregory]

Hinrik,

As someone who would very much like to acquire a representative collection of deactivated pieces such as yours, I can only wonder what else you have that is not shown above. After all, you did begin with "Some of my aircraft MGs".

Unfortunately, legal constraints, and a lack of funds and storage space, will probably mean that I have to stick to simple things like paperwork.

As a teenager I used to visit known aircraft crash sites to look for souvenirs. I usually found lots of broken plexiglass panels, mangled sections of airframe and ruptured .50 cal cases. The only piece I still have is an inspection cover with an American manufacturer's plate from a Liberator crash site in the UK. Its engines were still buried deep in the earth at the site 20 years ago.

Aviation archaeology seems to be very popular in Holland, which probably became the resting place of many bombers that never made it home. Here in Germany, most sites have been picked clean and there seems to be some unpleasant rivalry between certain groups that are obsessed with recovering as much as possible and then selling off what they don't need.

What are the legal aspects of aviation archaeology in Iceland? Can you dig on any land if the owner gives you permission? Who keeps the pieces found and what has to be reported to the police, etc.?

As a museum curator, you seem to enjoy certain privileges. I would also be interested in hearing how easy it is for a normal collector to obtain and own deactivated pieces such as those you show above. The law seems to have been relaxed slightly in the last year as far as deactivated hardware is concerned here in Germany and I believe it is now possible to own complete deactivated machine guns. Previously, it was illegal to assemble them.

Finally, how do you find out about the crash sites and can you show any images of a typical recovery operation including the "hike" to bring the finds back to civilisation?

Thanks in advance,

David

[Hinrik]

Dear David,

As I understand it, the laws in my counrty are now similar ( or worse) to the once in you country for the exepction to the few things:

1) semi automatic riffle importation was banned in 1977

2) As of 1998 semi automatic handguns / airguns are banned, no semi automatic handguns, other then specially made for competition shooting, can be imported.

On the general, Machine guns are bannened! but due to my ties with a museum, and my guns being of very history backround, I am one of only 2 individuals (to my knowladge) to have this permit. The guns have been deactivated, but the main thing is.. they still have moving parts and look excatly like the "live" ones on the outside, but cant fire.

My main interest is Iceland in WWII.....

I do compete in action leage in pistol shooting with Glock 17 and Beretta 92F in US when I went to collage / flight school there...but that is only for fun.

This is history and I am serious about that, specially when it has to do with my country I am only posting the guns as I think they will make an good "impact" or "impression" but I have boxes full of different parts of WWII Aircraft.

Regards

Hinrik

Hinrik

[joe campbell]

as i have come to anticipate, this is a very complete

presentation, and well done.

you are fortunate to have a situation where

preservation of history holds some value.

thank you!

joe

[John]

Hi hinrich,

Yet anpther great post. I know you are away at the moment, but please keep it coming. For me it's something competely new , and I find it fascinating!

Do you have shotgun restrictions in Iceland? What is the Armed Forces like there?

Regards,

John

[Firefly]

Fishing company started using the Lewis guns to shoot seals and whales.

Now, that's just not cricket!!! You've got to at least give them a sporting chance.....

[WWRelated]

Hi guys,

.

.

.

Bottom .50 cal is a nice gun from rare P-40N Warhawk fighterplane that crashed in Vestmannaeyjar islands, 1944. The Pilot, Major Mark J. Mourne, was the squadron leader of the 33rd. Fighter squadron. I have some documents with his signature.

I mainly collect items with history behind them...and I really go "out of my way" to track them down. The old saying in the USA....buy the item not history...does not apply in Iceland...there are so few collectors here..hence no people trying to scam you.

Regards

Hello Hinrik,

I was searching for information about Mark J Mourne and hit on this posting.

Maj. Mourne was my Great Uncle, my Mothers uncle.

I am interested in seeing what documents you have that contain his signature, as well as any other information about his plane or mission.

We knew that he had crashed in the islands during the war but he never shared much about the whole experience.

He made it back to the states and lived in California until he died in ~1970 or 71.

I only remember meeting him once so any additional info I can find on him and his service would be appreciated.

Cole

[Hinrik]

Hello Hinrik,

I was searching for information about Mark J Mourne and hit on this posting.

Maj. Mourne was my Great Uncle, my Mothers uncle.

I am interested in seeing what documents you have that contain his signature, as well as any other information about his plane or mission.

We knew that he had crashed in the islands during the war but he never shared much about the whole experience.

He made it back to the states and lived in California until he died in ~1970 or 71.

I only remember meeting him once so any additional info I can find on him and his service would be appreciated.

Cole

Dear Cole,

Nice to hear from you. Back in 1994, I started tracking down pilots of the 33rd Fighter Squadron. I was able to contact

about 15 of them, including some of your uncle´s friends. One of them is still alive, close to 90 years old. You might

also be excited to hear that I have a wartime photo of your uncle, taken in Iceland, with 3 other pilots, all wearing

the rare B7 white winter parkas.

I have a website in the making. Please contact me through that: www.ww2.is

Picture shows a 33rd F.S. P40 being dug out of the snow in Iceland harsh winter.

Regards

Hinrik

Edited September 18, 2009 by Hinrik

[Douglas Jr.]

Hinrik,

Very nice collection! I'm amazed by the stories that you traced regarding most of the MGs.

In the other hand, I was kind of sad to know that Iceland did not escape from the narrow-minded people's fury that consider every gun (no matter when it was made) a risk and try to ban them.

Once more, congratulations for your efforts to preserve history.

Douglas

Edited September 18, 2009 by Douglas Jr.