Bulgaria A Huge Ribbon Bar, An Undocumented Group-- And MANY Questions

[Guest Rick Research]

This gigantic ribbon bar was just dropped off by Partially Evil Ricky this morning with matching but currently undocumented awards. I will identify these ribbons-- with the MADDENING Bulgarian use of the same generic ribbon colors over and over, by what came with it. Then the questions....

Top row: Order of the Peoples Rebublic of Bulgaria (1st Class, final type), Order of peoples Liberty 2nd Class (stippled reverse late type on large suspension), Order of the Red banner (no serial number), Anti-Fascist Struggle Medal

2nd row: TWO count 'em TWO 1944-45 War Medals (two came with group-- first question obviously arises here, but that later), Military Merit Medal, 10 Years Service Medal (Army, 1st type state seal)

3rd row: 15 Years Service Medal (army, 1st type state seal), 20 Years Service Medal (army, "681-1944" arms), 20 Years Armed Forces 1964, 25 Years Republic 1969

4th row: 25 Years Armed Forces 1969, 30 Years of MVR 1974, 30 Years of the Republic 1974, 1973 Anniversary of the 1923 Uprisings (?)

5th row: Dimitrov 90th Birthday 1982, 30 Years of Armed Forces 1974(NOTE OUTER TRICOLOR STRIPES), 1974 Jubilee of Construction Troops, 1876-1976 Centennial of April Uprising

6th row: 25th Jubilee of Civil Defense 1969, 1300 Years of Bulgaria 1981, Centenary of Dimitrov 1982, Jubilee of the Republic 1984

7th row: 1985 Victory Jubilee, Soviet Victory Over Germany 1945, Soviet Victory Jubilee 1965, Soviet Victory Jubilee 1985

Next... the questions Hopefully the documents will turn up. As often seems to be the case, the papers and medals get lost in heaps and sorted out later by the sellers.

[Guest Rick Research]

Just showing the Orders which came with this:

[Guest Rick Research]

reverses

[Guest Rick Research]

FIRST QUESTION:

What the heck are TWO 1944-45 War Medal ribbons doing there starting the 2nd row? Sure enough-- two came with the undocumented group. Could one of those REALLY be the Tsarist 1915-18 War Medal?????

SECOND QUESTION:

Last ribbon in the 4th row, by position, would seem to be the 1973 Anniversary of the 1923 Uprisings Medal...

and sure enough here it is:

Now, my understanding of the limited, undetailed, Bulgarian awards references that came to me from Eric's library is that this medal was awarded to surviving participants of the 1923 disturbances-- yet there is no ribbon for the 25th Anniversary medal of 1948?

[Guest Rick Research]

This would appear to be the group of a 25 years serving member of the armed forces 1944-?1969 (MMM for 5 years, 10, 15, 20 years Service Medals, Red Banner for 25 years) yet

THIRD QUESTION--

2nd ribbon in the 5th row APPEARS to be for the 30th Anniversary of the Armed Forces 1974 (blue center, tricolor edges) and that is what came with this group BUT the ribbon bar "ribbon" has the WHITE national tricolor stripes on the outside edge and the 1974 Medal has GREEN on the outside edges.

Orrrrrrrr.....

FOURTH QUESTION

SHOULD that "ribbon" have GREEN in the center and be the 1975 Victory Jubilee (tricolor stripes then would be correct) Medal? Because there is no 1975 Victory Jubilee Medal with the group.

So--

??? ERROR with TWO 1944/45 Medals (or an ANCIENT WW1 survivor?), 1923-73 "mystery," and... INCORRECT ribbon at 1974/75 spot?

How or why COULD a recently retired career soldier/WW2 Veteran NOT have BOTH the armed forces 1974 AND the 1975 Victory Jubilee?

The jubilees show a mix of armed forces, interior forces, "construction troops" and civil defense....

:cheers:

[Guest Rick Research]

I've been trying to "fake" reading Todor Petrov's 1998 "Ordeni I Medali V B'lgariya" but my Russian isn't up to it...

The 1964 Armed Forces Jubilee seems to have been given only to those who had at least 10 years of service?

The 1969 Armed Forces Jubilee seems to have been given to "combatants" with at least 10 years of service and "Beamten" in the German sense with at least 15 years service-- and like the above whether active on that date or previously retired?

There seems to have been an "and ALSO..." category of military (?) recipients of the 1923-73 Medal-- but I can't understand what it says in Bulgarian:

The 1974 Armed Forces Jubilee seems to have been given to all retired military career personnel and those on active duty, without mention of years service required.

The MVR 1974 Jubilee I can't explain in this group... ?

Requirements for the Construction Troops Jubilee 1974 if I can read this correctly went to retired personnel who had at least 20 years in the Construction Troops but 15 years if on active duty.Since the Construction Troops long service medals were only created in 1969, presumably the armed forces ones were issued to those troops before that.

But where or where is the 1975 Victory Jubilee? This group contains BOTH the Bulgarian and Soviet WW2 medals... so why no Bulgarian jubilee here when the 1985 one is present?

I can make NO sense whatsoever as to why anyone did or did not receive medals like that of the 1876-1976 Jubilee. Why THAT and NOT the 1878-1978, for instance?

Confused.... so MANY jubilees...a dn such VAGUE "requirements." :banger:

[Greg Collins]

First off- great ribbon bar!!! It is, by far, the largest I have seen to date. As for your questions; all good questions and, I'm afraid, all will go unanswered. Since beginning my Bulgarian and Romanian collections I have discovered that, when collecting ribbon bars, you just have to accept what's there and be happy that it gives you something to talk about. If you try to make too much sense or logic about it, you are doomed to frustration.

One thing to "logically" consider when approaching these bars is that, once made, you're stuck with whatever is on that row. The only way to fix the order of awards on that row is to re-make it. Also, incomplete rows are more fragile, due to this type of construction, than complete rows. It was desirable to "square it up" for stability's sake. Also, and I bet this was a "primary factor", expense!!! How often do you want to "shell out" more cash simply for the addition of a commemorative award?

I recently posted a "splice job" on the Romania forum on page 3 of the Securitate thread. Take a look and enjoy! It's quite "out of whack".

[Guest Rick Research]

Yup-- some mysteries can only be explained if the original matching paperwork is also present.

But the very existence of such... disorder... in totalitarian (!) systems boggles the mind. I recall reading somewhere that Soviet soldiers were inspected to make sure their buttons all had the hammer and sickle facing up--sewing the emblems of State Power on sideways or upside down was akin to petty treason. So throwing State Awards all together higgledy piggledy is... weird.

[Theodor]

Jubilee Medal "50 years September People's Uprising"

Founded on August 10th 1973, the medal was awarded to the living participants in the September 1923 uprising and the struggle against the 9 June coup of the same year.

The medal is made of yellow metal, has the shape of a circle with 34 mm diameter.

On one side is shown relief of two participants in the revolt, one on horse with a gun on the shoulder and one on knee pointing his gun.

On the back side is written in 6 rows: 50/years/September/People's/Uprising/1923

The medal is worn on the left side of the chest, on square wine-red ribbon with yellow stripe in the ends. It is produced in the State Mint. Authors prof. Dimitar Daskalov and prof. Vladimir Starchev.

Bottom note: State Council Decree Nr. 1737 from 10 August 1973, published in the State Journal on 11 September 1973 /the State Journal is the official paper where all laws and other such stuff is published and these things receive their legal power only after the publication in the paper/.

[Guest Rick Research]

Well, THAT is weird-- how could someone have that in 1973 and NOT the 1948 medal on trifold ribbon? And if it is the 1948 medal ribbon on the giant bar, and the guy was alive in 1985... how could he not have BOTH?

Was that any way to run a Communist dictatorship?

:cheers: