Dieter3 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Are original cases most likely pasteboard, similar to the other later war medals, or possibly of lacquer type? I'm wondering if the black plastic cases were influenced by the original (?) ..... There is no reference to the cases in the "book", nor any mention of discerning the veteran replicas from originals. There must be some difference(s), or does one really just need to know the lineage from owner to owner to guarantee an authentic? There was what was claimed to be an original on eBay a week or so ago, from the Sessler collection, via the Mr. Nakabori referred to in the "book". I don't believe it sold, it seemed cheap ($1000 starting?) if it was a true original, but maybe that's not cheap? It had no differences that I could see as compared to a replica and I suspect people would be a bit concerned about putting down that kind of money for something that might be original and only have a story on which to rely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Without a very strong pedigree people will be worried about buying one. For an item like this ebay is the wrong forum since there are too many fakes out there. If it was an original then it would have been a bargain. However I would not buy one from ebay. Regarding boxes, I have never seen a box and have never met anybody who has seen a box of issue. If there were boxes then they were most likely the pasteboard type, lacquer boxes are for orders and this is a campaign medal. However it is entirely possible that the boxes were never made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 Ah, I love a good mystery!! Sure would be nice to find a vet that was issued an original!! Maybe shed some light on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Hi Dieter I wonder how much the first stamped victory medals would fetch at auction? (Any ideas?) My friend visited Hawaii in 1978 and bought me, as a gesture, a Japanese victory medal similar to the ones you picture but it is clearly fake, even coming in its own black lacquer box that is actually made of plastic. I thought for years the Japanese never had a medal for this event so assumed it was fake anyway - until I heard about one recently and now I read your article. I live in Melbourne (Australia) and my medal is with my parents in Sydney so I can't provide any further information about it until after Christmas. I remember it does have something on the reverse... (Anyway, I have just joined the GMIC and this is my first contribution. I see your messages frequently and, because I have a passion for Japanese military and naval history, I sense we may become good friends. I look forward to enjoying and sharing this site and being an active member.) All good wishes Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Welcome Rich! The more the merrier! Yes, the black plastic cases are definitely well known as replicas. I personally find them to be of a high quality though. Yeah, you can tell it's plastic, but they seem well-made, and look good in my opinion. I'v only ever seen the wooden cases in pictures at auction, but I'm guessing these are of good quality, similar to the wooden cases of earlier medals, but I don't own one, so not sure. I simply can't imagine the original originals didn't come with some sort of case, like Paul suggested, most likely paste board, but I would love to really know! Somebody out there must have this information. Edited October 31, 2009 by Dieter3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I had a good conversation yesterday with Mori san in Tokyo, one of the oldest militaria dealers here. I asked about boxes for the GEAWM nad he also believes that the boxes were never actually made. The boxes are not made by the Osaka Mint, they are made by another company(ies) and he reckons that they never produced them since the medals had not yet been generally awarded. Given the fact that the only three genuine examples I have seen in the last 20 years were all without boxes I would tend to agree with this. He has been a dealer of Japanese medals and militaria for over 40 years and has handled everything, but he has never seen a box for the GEAWM. As for price, Anything below $5,000 would be a bargain for an original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I am amazed, being new to the GMIC, at how many experts there are and how obscure their fields of interest can be; Mr Mori in Japan would obviously know so much so I'm wondering if he doesn't know about the cases for the GEAWM then who would? Anyway, let's hope we find out, at some stage. Many veterans are getting old and there must be a cluttered attic somewhere, waiting to be cleaned out (and sold)! Certainly, my ability to contribute further to this topic has reached its limit. But it is fascinating for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) Thank you Paul! Good info. So, since the consensus is that there were no cases - now I can safely wonder what the *might* have been like. Alas, I think I'll have to stick to the nice replicas. I wouldn't know a real one from a copy if I saw one! Not that I'll ever come across one anyway, but yeah, you know there's something out there, stuck in an attic or the back of an old farmhouse somewhere! Hey, the fantasy possibilities are one of the things that make it fun to collect! My one question still remains though - did the green ribbon versions of medal, original or replica, have an accompanying rosette? Paul, if you get a chance, could you ask Mr. Mori about this??? Sounds like a good bloke to know if you're into this hobby!! Edited November 2, 2009 by Dieter3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 Since so few originals were issued, are there are examples of award documents for this medal? I have seen some sort of document included with a few of the veteran replicas but they look nothing like the "typical" award documents - much smaller, look to have a gold mum on them at the top. Anybody have any pictures of any of these??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I have never seen a document for this medal. I doubt if there are any proper certificates, there might have been some sort of provisional cert but certainly not the large type we are used to seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard LaTondre Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Here is an unusual set on eBay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) Yes, I've seen that one. It appears to have an unwatered ribbon, best I can tell from the pics. - I've noted in the few I've seen - the unwatered ribbons seem to come in the black cases with the mum on it. All of the others I've seen are watered ribbons and in mumless cases, either black plastic or kiri wood. Granted, this is only from a handful of observations! Edited December 21, 2009 by Dieter3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard LaTondre Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Yes, I've seen that one. It appears to have an unwatered ribbon, best I can tell from the pics. - I've noted in the few I've seen - the unwatered ribbons seem to come in the black cases with the mum on it. All of the others I've seen are watered ribbons and in mumless cases, either black plastic or wood. Granted, this is only from a handful of observations! Thanks! Do you recall if the cases with the Mum were plastic or wood? This would be fairly important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) The mummed cases appear to be lacquered wood, what do you think?? I've never actually had the opportunity to handle one! Here are two different pieces: I didn't actually read the text of that auction - did the seller indicate case material? I guess the easiest way to find out would be to send a question! I'm curious, I'll do that later if I remember to do so. Edited December 21, 2009 by Dieter3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard LaTondre Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 The mummed cases appear to be lacquered wood, what do you think?? I've never actually had the opportunity to handle one! Here are two different pieces: I didn't actually read the text of that auction - did the seller indicate case material? I guess the easiest way to find out would be to send a question! I'm curious, I'll do that later if I remember to do so. Very interesting. If those cases with the Mums are in fact wood, we may be looking at an older issue that has recently surfaced. Now if we could only see the reverse of the medal and if it has a hallmark to the left of the stele . . . . . . . . Thanks, Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 I will pay closer attention to the assorted auctions and look for the reverse as well as the text of the auctions. I don't have any pics. of the reverse of the two above unfortunately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Hi Dieter I was checking ebay and noticed a version of this medal is currently listed. It seems identical to the one a friend bought for me in Hawaii all those years ago. Anyway, bidding seems brisk and I thought, merely, to bring it to your attention. All good wishes Satsuma PS I have no vested interest in this ebay listing but hoped it would add to our discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Hi Dieter Oops! I forgot to give the address of the listing : http://offer.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=120516012983 Satsuma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted January 16, 2010 Author Share Posted January 16, 2010 Thank you! Yes, I've been watching this one. (Watch as many as I can!!) It's quite nice. There was one this past week that I was watching too - that had an apparently original insert document - sure would love to get a look at it in person!! If any of my fellow forum members was the lucky winner of that auction, do contact me if you are willing to make a scan or photocopy!! This one (sorry, it's blurry!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Hi Dieter! I have many books published in Japan over the last century and I'm sure, from these samples alone, that the paper in the picture is post-WW2. For one thing, it has no "foxing", or mould and the creases have not "settled" over decades of humidity variation. Therefore, this (and the medal) are very likely to be reproductions and I'm guessing they're from the 1970's. Also, like my own medal, the case is moulded plastic! I believe that if this technology was available in Japan in WW2 then we would see it here, there and everywhere in their war time manufactures and not just in this isolated medal case. Having said all this, I'm still mad keen to get a copy of the medal's paper leaflet, and a translation. It might even make a good wall poster! Keep well Satsuma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 Apparently, the insert was dated 1944 - but I agree with you and surmise that it is an original duplication of an original! In other words, it really came with post-war medal as an example of what would have been with the originals, or perhaps intended to be with originals?? Dunno, but it seems to somewhat widen the mystery surrounding this intriguing award! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Yes, images of Japanese troops, all wearing their victory medals, being photographed in front of the White House, the Sydney Harbour Bridge, Big Ben, the Marco Polo Bridge, etc, come to mind. Anyway, there's been over a hundred wars since then ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul L Murphy Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I think the form of insert has changed over the years since the most recent examples of this medal have a different explanatory leaflet with them. I do not have one to hand at the moment. I have also seen examples where there was no leaflet. All of these are post war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunjinantiques Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 By the way, if you are looking for a rare replica, it is probably the one with the blank reverse. That is the first one I have seen of its kind, and it may be an error. A rare replica variant! The one with the blank back was made to go inside a frame to be hung on the wall. I've owned a few of them. They are the poorest quality, but well worth having in a collection of course as a weird variant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter3 Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 The one with the blank back was made to go inside a frame to be hung on the wall. I've owned a few of them. They are the poorest quality, but well worth having in a collection of course as a weird variant... Ha!! That makes sense actually. They almost look cast, not stamped - is that the case? Definitely worth having in a collection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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