Kriegsmarine T-boote in these photos?

[Norm F]

Hello all,

Does anyone recognize this type of ship in the following photos?

Here's the background:

These photos are from the harbour (Hafen) in Flensburg-Mürwik in Schleswig-Holstein next to the old Naval Academy from 1937. At the harbour were various ships and U-boots used mainly for training purposes I believe.

My father took these photos in 1937 when attending the Marinenachrichtenschule. He referred to the boots in question as Torpedo boats when he labelled them on the back, and another member from Denmark has some similar photos from the same era and location also referring to them as T-boote.

However, as you will see these are unusual looking Torpedoboots.

First the harbour. Notice the two ships in question, moored side by side at the jetty. You can see the number 11 on bow of the front one. More to follow.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Norm F

[Norm F]

Here's a photo closer up to them showing a few details such as the funnel.

[Norm F]

Finally, this photo is pretty good view of these two presumed "T-Boote", showing their numbers 7 and 11.

So now start the questions.

Although these do look very much like the T-boot designs of late WW1 and the Reichsmarine, my understanding is ships of that era were named and had call letters, not numbers. Also I don't see any guns on the fore-decks as I would expect.

I was wondering if they could be older ships which have been modifed for training purposes for the Kriegsmarine.

Any opinions? Are there any clues here that would identify which ships they are and when they were built?

Best regards,

---Norm

Edited September 23, 2009 by Norm F

[Gordon Williamson]

Yes, definitely Torpedoboote, but not the Raubtier or Raubvogel class which as you rightly say, had call letters rather than numbers. Another clue is in the funnels, the Raubtier/Raubvogel had a wider forward funnel and narrower aft funnel. The fact the both funnels are around the same size suggests these are left over WW1 Torpedoboats, possibly T16Mob class. The bulk of these were scrapped or otherwise disposed of after the war but I have seen reference to four modified examples of this type being commissioned between 1919 and 1921 and which presumably served in the Reichsmarine and the early days of the Kriegsmarine.

[Norm F]

Yes, definitely Torpedoboote, but not the Raubtier or Raubvogel class which as you rightly say, had call letters rather than numbers. Another clue is in the funnels, the Raubtier/Raubvogel had a wider forward funnel and narrower aft funnel. The fact the both funnels are around the same size suggests these are left over WW1 Torpedoboats, possibly T16Mob class. The bulk of these were scrapped or otherwise disposed of after the war but I have seen reference to four modified examples of this type being commissioned between 1919 and 1921 and which presumably served in the Reichsmarine and the early days of the Kriegsmarine.

Thanks Gordon! Always a pleasure to benefit from your extensive knowledge.

I see what you mean about the funnels. And now that you point it out, when I look at the diagrams of WW1 class vessels at:

http://www.german-na...8mob/index.html

I see that on both the 1916Mob and the 1918Mob class, another distinguishing feature is the rear mast being set further back and about half the height of the front mast. In fact the 1918Mob class seems the closest match; although the rear funnel on this model is smaller than the front, the difference in width seems more subtle than on the later models, while the front and back funnels are very close in height and have the horizontal ridges. Also, it would fit with the fact that no 1918Mob examples were finished as warships, thus accounting for the lack of gun turrets on the examples in the photo.

I find it fascinating to find photographic evidence of existing variations of this sort in 1937 that are not yet well documented, at least on internet sources.

Best regards,

---Norm

Edited September 23, 2009 by Norm F