China Order of the Button

[Jeff Mc William]

Can someone help a confused novice in the matter of Chinese OD&M's :

I am anxiously seeking information regarding the "Order of the Precious Star" (Pao Hsing) also I believe called the "Order of the Button" instigated (I think) in 1862 and awarded to several British Officers and men of the Anglo Chinese Contingent, presumably for their services in the Taiping Wars.

The Order is very briefly referred to in Tancred (published in 1891). One item is listed in the RUSI Catalogue published in 1916, and there is also another mention in the OMRS Journal (Autumn 1982). So I quite expected to find a more detailed description in the latest book "Chinese Orders 1862-1955" by Gongqing Li as outlined in the Chinese Blog http://chinesemedal.wordpress.com also given in a previous thread on this forum..but..nothing, tho' it does seem to have a remarkable similarity with the "Order of the Double Dragon" ?? Could anybody clarify please ?? Jeff

Edited October 9, 2009 by Jeff Mc William

[Guest Rick Research]

From the ONLY reference I could find--unfortunately without illustration-- C.N. Elvin's 1892 "The Hand-Book of the Orders of Chivalry, War Medals & Crosses..."

it appears that this was not actually an Order but an assortment of similar looking local awards simply sharing certain design motifs. He refers to it here as an "Order" but Werlich did not. r

[Jeff Mc William]

From the ONLY reference I could find--unfortunately without illustration-- C.N. Elvin's 1892 "The Hand-Book of the Orders of Chivalry, War Medals & Crosses..."

it appears that this was not actually an Order but an assortment of similar looking local awards simply sharing certain design motifs. He refers to it here as an "Order" but Werlich did not. r

Rick. Thanks very much for this..it looks as tho' we are off to a good start ! I wonder if anyone "out there" has any pics they can show me ? I do know there were at least four grades, viz : The Red Button, Green Button, Blue Button, and Crystal Button. This last may also have been known as the White Button ??

Regards Jeff

PS What does Werlich actually say ?

Edited October 10, 2009 by Jeff Mc William

[Guest Rick Research]

No mention at all of anything but the Double Dragon.

[James Hoard]

From the ONLY reference I could find--unfortunately without illustration-- C.N. Elvin's 1892 "The Hand-Book of the Orders of Chivalry, War Medals & Crosses..."

it appears that this was not actually an Order but an assortment of similar looking local awards simply sharing certain design motifs. He refers to it here as an "Order" but Werlich did not. r

The writer is completely confused. There was no "Order of the Button".

Imperial court rank was symbolised by uniforms worn by all imperial officials (mandarins and military officers), their several classes were distinguished by an elaborate costume. As part of this, they wore a distinguishing girdle and cap with a peacock feather. At the top of the cap were "balls" called "buttons" with different sprecious materials denoting the rank of the wearer:

Princes not of the Imperial Family and 1^st class military and civil courtiers – ruby button

2^nd class – red coral

3^rd class – sapphire

4^th class – opaque stone

5^th class – transparent crystal

6^th class – jade

7^th class – embossed gold

8^th class – plain gold

9^th class – silver

Cheers,

James

[Jeff Mc William]

The writer is completely confused. There was no "Order of the Button".

Imperial court rank was symbolised by uniforms worn by all imperial officials (mandarins and military officers), their several classes were distinguished by an elaborate costume. As part of this, they wore a distinguishing girdle and cap with a peacock feather. At the top of the cap were "balls" called "buttons" with different sprecious materials denoting the rank of the wearer:

Princes not of the Imperial Family and 1^st class military and civil courtiers – ruby button

2^nd class – red coral

3^rd class – sapphire

4^th class – opaque stone

5^th class – transparent crystal

6^th class – jade

7^th class – embossed gold

8^th class – plain gold

9^th class – silver

Cheers,

James

James. Oh dear..now I really am confused ! To which "writer" are you referring, Rick or Elvin (or me !) ?

Also, you seem to infer that these "buttons" served only as badges of rank for Imperial Officials. But, if this is so, what were these "Order of the Button" awards given to the four men of the 67th Regt in 1862 mentioned by Elvin (and incidently Tancred) ? Also I am aware of similar awards to the Royal Artillery and the Anglo Chinese Contingent. So, while I bow to your obvious superior knowledge in these matters, to say that I am now more confused than ever is an understatement ! Cheers Jeff

Edited October 11, 2009 by Jeff Mc William

[James Hoard]

James. Oh dear..now I really am confused ! To which "writer" are you referring, Rick or Elvin (or me !) ?

Also, you seem to infer that these "buttons" served only as badges of rank for Imperial Officials. But, if this is so, what were these "Order of the Button" awards given to the four men of the 67th Regt in 1862 mentioned by Elvin (and incidently Tancred) ? Also I am aware of similar awards to the Royal Artillery and the Anglo Chinese Contingent. So, while I bow to your obvious superior knowledge in these matters, to say that I am now more confused than ever is an understatement ! Cheers Jeff

Jeff,

I meant Elvin.

Apart from all the confused jibberish about the buttons, please read again the bit under "Ruby Button". Ask yourself why would something called a "Ruby Button" have a red or blue crystal in the centre? No mention of a ruby anywhere in sight. Is he talking about a medal, a star or a badge? It is something different in every sentence. What "Imperial Arms of China"? There were none. The clawed dragon was the Imperial symbol, which one could possibly describe as a badge, but "Coat of Arms"? One needs supporters, a shield, etc, etc for those.

From the meagre descriptions of the other two items, it looks like he is talking about awards made by imperial officials or government agencies/ministries

rather than official imperial awards. Everyone from local generals to the ambassadors in London and Berlin gave out their own inscribed medals.

Please note that the grades of the Order of the Double Dragon were also denoted by crystals, jade, coral, sapphire's etc. So it could conceivably be that Elvin is really trying to describe these, but one cannot be sure.

I am afraid that I cannot comment on what I have not seen so cannot saying anything about the other soldiers from the 67th you mention. Although senior ranking foreign nationals in service with the admiralty, war office or Imperial Maritime Customs did receive such appointments, that was because they were mandarins themselves. I am thinking of the likes of Gordon of Khartoun and Sir Robert Hart. Alas, these folk were 'Gods'. It is highly unlikely that a simple soldier would be given anything like the ruby or coral button.

But do also keep in mind that whenever someone gets a foreign award, it is invariably termed "the highest" order/decoration/medal. A simple Chevalier of the Legion of Honour is invariably reported as having received "France's highest honour". Nobody ever says he got the lowest.

Cheers

James

[Jeff Mc William]

James. Thank you for your most courteous and informative reply. If you will excuse me now for a short while I will consult further the details which I referred to in my original post, plus anything else I can find which might clarify the situation.

It is a great pity I feel that neither Elvin or Tancred were able to provide illustrations of this particular device in their otherwise excellent early works. I notice you referred to the similarity with the Order of the Double dragon..which indeed I also did in my first post, and it seems Elvin was aware of this also from the vestige of the page in Rick's attachment. Have you any comments re the alternative title for the "Button" award, viz ; "Precious Star (Pao Hsing)" also mentioned in my first post ?

Hopefully I will get back to you shortly with the remaining details which I have..tho' not unfortunately any pictures. Regards Jeff

[James Hoard]

James. Thank you for your most courteous and informative reply. If you will excuse me now for a short while I will consult further the details which I referred to in my original post, plus anything else I can find which might clarify the situation.

It is a great pity I feel that neither Elvin or Tancred were able to provide illustrations of this particular device in their otherwise excellent early works. I notice you referred to the similarity with the Order of the Double dragon..which indeed I also did in my first post, and it seems Elvin was aware of this also from the vestige of the page in Rick's attachment. Have you any comments re the alternative title for the "Button" award, viz ; "Precious Star (Pao Hsing)" also mentioned in my first post ?

Hopefully I will get back to you shortly with the remaining details which I have..tho' not unfortunately any pictures. Regards Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I am very sorry to say that I do not know anything about te "Precious Star" award. As you say, without illustrations, it is difficult to say very much.

Cheers,

James

[CUSSONNEAU]

Hello,

Just have a glance on the excellent JOMSA website :

http://www.omsa.org/...ery.php?cat=590

Truly yours

Cussonneau

[Jeff Mc William]

Hello,

Just have a glance on the excellent JOMSA website :

http://www.omsa.org/...ery.php?cat=590

Truly yours

Cussonneau

Thank you Cussonneau. What an amazing and interesting site ! After looking at this I guess the so called "Order of the Button" refers in fact to one or all of these delightful Chinese Orders of Merit. Thank you again for your kind and generous (and most helpful) reply. Sincerely. Jeff

[Richard LaTondre]

Rick. Thanks very much for this..it looks as tho' we are off to a good start ! I wonder if anyone "out there" has any pics they can show me ? I do know there were at least four grades, viz : The Red Button, Green Button, Blue Button, and Crystal Button. This last may also have been known as the White Button ??

Regards Jeff

PS What does Werlich actually say ?

Photographs of these awards can be found at the Orders and Medals Society of America Website at:

http://www.omsa.org/modules/Jig/index.php

Dick LaTondre

[lilo]

Hi Jeff,

Reading what is it written at : http://chinesemedal....ers-2009-08-13/ , I understood that what is called 'Order of the Button', really it is the early type of the Double Dragon Order.

In my opinion, the words 'Order of the Button' generated from a westerner identification of this Order that, for lack of information or for whatever other reason, the Occidentals not knowing how to call it, simply seeing the central stone on this type of Order, at some point started to call it as : 'Order of the Button'.

Regards

Lilo

Edited November 28, 2009 by lilo