Kriegsmarine U-boote identification question

[Norm F]

Hi All,

Can anyone identify the type of U-boote shown in these photos?

These photos are from 1937 in the harbour at Flensburg-Mürwik near the German Naval Academy which can be seen in the background in the upper right corner. I assume they are older training vessels since they don't match diagrams I've seen of wartime U-boots.

First, what I assume is a view from the stern?

[Norm F]

And finally, a view of what I assume is the bow.

Any ideas on the model, year of production, function, etc.?

Best regards,

---Norm

[Gordon Williamson]

Hi Norm,

These are Type II boats. More specifically, they look like Type IIc in which the front face of the tower was flush ( the Type IIa and Type IIb had a stepped front). Hard to be certain as the lower part of the tower on the TYpe IIa and TYpe IIb was only slightly more prominent than the upper half. Only 8 of the Type IIc were built. Limited range and payload, so only for use in coastal waters.

Attached some drawings to show the flush /stepped tower.

Heres a scale model of a Type II so you can see her from various angles.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=29451

[Norm F]

Hi Norm,

These are Type II boats. More specifically, they look like Type IIc in which the front face of the tower was flush ( the Type IIa and Type IIb had a stepped front). Hard to be certain as the lower part of the tower on the TYpe IIa and TYpe IIb was only slightly more prominent than the upper half. Only 8 of the Type IIc were built. Limited range and payload, so only for use in coastal waters.

Attached some drawings to show the flush /stepped tower.

Heres a scale model of a Type II so you can see her from various angles.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=29451

Thanks very much Gordon!

I studied your model of the IIa with great interest, and looked at other pictures of IIa vs. IIc and you're absolutely right that it appears like a IIc with the flush front to the tower.

There's one probem however. I know for a fact that these photos were taken in early 1937 (see the ice breaking up), whereas according to what I read on uboot.net, the Type IIc u-boote were ordered in July, 1937 and built thereafter.

Here's a link to a tiny photo of the U1 on uboot.net

Although it's rather fuzzy, the front of the tower looks more flush than I would have expected.

Maybe the three u-boote in my photos are type IIa or IIb and there are variations in the tower fronts? What do you think?

Best regards,

---Norm

[Gordon Williamson]

In that case I'd suspect it has to do with the angle of the photo, light conditions etc. The step in the forward face isn't that pronounced. From the side, it would be clearer, but on a bow-on shot it could be very deceptive. Most likely those in your photo are Type IIb, the type for which the greatest numbers were built.

[Norm F]

In that case I'd suspect it has to do with the angle of the photo, light conditions etc. The step in the forward face isn't that pronounced. From the side, it would be clearer, but on a bow-on shot it could be very deceptive. Most likely those in your photo are Type IIb, the type for which the greatest numbers were built.

Yes, I just found some photos on the internet at http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/u-boats.htm that illustrate your point about the photo conditions quite nicely. In this photo of type IIb subs from 1937 you can see the step in the group shot, but in the bow shot of the U9 it's almost invisible.

I wonder also about the feature I've circled, though. Not knowing anything about how subs function, I assume these are some kind water vents that can be opened and closed? On my previous photo in this area of the bow there are seven rectangular 'holes' whereas in this group photo it looks more like 12. In the bow shot of the U9 however it looks like fewer. I wonder do these open and close, giving different appearances on different shots, and therefore rendering them unreliable as distinguishing trademarks for the different sub models?

Regards,

---Norm

[Gordon Williamson]

What you are seeing are actually just holes. The space between the inner pressure hull and the outer casing is free-flooding. As the boat dives, water pours in through these holes and floods this area between the pressure hull and outer casing. When the boat surfaces, the water simply pours out of these holes again. If you search around for some images of submarines surfacing, you should be able to see the water pouring out of these vent holes.

The exact configuration of these holes can vary from type to type and even from manufacturer to manufacturer. Some of the more technicaly oriented German references actually give details of the various configurations used by each maker, though from memory I think this was just for the Type VIIs. Can'#t recall seeing this info for the Type IIs.

[Norm F]

What you are seeing are actually just holes. The space between the inner pressure hull and the outer casing is free-flooding. As the boat dives, water pours in through these holes and floods this area between the pressure hull and outer casing. When the boat surfaces, the water simply pours out of these holes again. If you search around for some images of submarines surfacing, you should be able to see the water pouring out of these vent holes.

The exact configuration of these holes can vary from type to type and even from manufacturer to manufacturer. Some of the more technicaly oriented German references actually give details of the various configurations used by each maker, though from memory I think this was just for the Type VIIs. Can't recall seeing this info for the Type IIs.

Thanks again Gordon. I can always count on you to steer me in the right direction.

Looking further I found this great thread of photos of various types of subs at http://www.subsim.co...ad.php?t=149950 from a gentleman in France.

From this it seems that the pattern of vent holes varied considerably, even within a particular model type. The pattern for IIb does in general match best, showing the seven holes like mine, and then 2 smaller holes over from there and a then another 2 fullsize, making around 11 it seems.

Much obliged.

---Norm

Edit: I spoke too soon! Looking again at the photos on that thread, it now looks these are a better match with the type IIa. The 7 vent holes at the bow and the 12 vent holes at the aft, match my photos even better than the type IIb. I now believe these to be type IIa! Interesting, that means that pre-war, several of these first run of subs were moored at Flensburg near the Naval Academy.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Norm F