France Help with ID'ing this soldier's regiment please

[rusticalex]

I have this illustration, and hope someone can help me identify which regiment the soldier belonged to, as well as what period it is from, and what rank he may have been. Please also see this topic - My link - it seems likely that I have the badge worn under his neck as well!

Thank you

Alex

[Veteran]

This French officer is probably a captain (both épaulettes have typical light ornement). Second Empire, and certainly after 1855 (Crimean War Medal with bar). He may have won his Legion of honor in Crimea as well.

The badge around his neck is the "haussecol" worn at the time by officers when on duty. It carries the Imperial Eagle as does his képi. I cannot see anything that would tell more about the unit he belonged to. Probably Army but he might also have belonged to the Garde Nationale, which was a town militia.

That is as much as I can make of it. Hopefully, additionnal information will come forth.

Best regards

Veteran

[jagwca]

2 things that must have some revelance is the #1 and the colour fo the plume gold over scarlet on the kepi.

John

[Veteran]

John is absolutely right. I just bypassed the significant details. Sorry !

The numeral 1 on the shako could not be Garde Nationale, it has to be Regular Army.

The small round yellow addition (pompon) seen over the cocarde and red ornement was traditionnally worn by of the Line Infantry Regiments.

Most French Line Infatry Regiments has four battalions.

When in dress uniform, men and officers of the first battalion wore a dark blue woollen "pompon". The second battalion had scarlett, the third bright yellow and the fourth dark green.

This captain belonged to the 3rd Battalion of the 1rst Line Infantry Regiment between 1855 and 1870.

Regards

Paul

[rusticalex]

Paul and John...what stunning teamwork...thank you for that fantastic response! I think it is wonderful that you have pinned him down to date, rank, battalion and regiment! Any ideas where I might find out more info about this battalion during this period please?

Alex

Edited November 25, 2009 by rusticalex

[Veteran]

Paul and John...what stunning teamwork...thank you for that fantastic response! I think it is wonderful that you have pinned him down to date, rank, battalion and regiment! Any ideas where I might find out more info about this battalion during this period please?

Alex

The 1st Infantry Regiment as it was called at the time of this portrait (and still is) is arguably the oldest European regiment still in existence, having derived from a regiment formed in 1480.

It was not employed outside France in the period 1855-70 but it was heavily engaged against the Prussian Army in 1870 and totaly distroyed or taken prisonner.

It is presently an armoured infantry regiment stationed in Sarrebourg (Eastern France).

Regards

Paul.

[rusticalex]

Thanks Paul. Interestingly enough, I was looking at the signature on the illustration...

...and I don't know if it is the same chap, but Disderi was a daguerreotypist - My link - it says that he studied art early on. I'm not sure what the rest of the writing indicates, but maybe I shouldn't get too obsessed about all of this! The main thing for me was to find out more about why my cousin had this illustration and the eagle that is on the haussecol around his neck, in her possession, but instead I've found out plenty of other intriguing things!

Thanks again.

Alex

[Veteran]

Thanks Paul. Interestingly enough, I was looking at the signature on the illustration...

...and I don't know if it is the same chap, but Disderi was a daguerreotypist - My link - it says that he studied art early on. I'm not sure what the rest of the writing indicates, but maybe I shouldn't get too obsessed about all of this! The main thing for me was to find out more about why my cousin had this illustration and the eagle that is on the haussecol around his neck, in her possession, but instead I've found out plenty of other intriguing things!

Thanks again.

Alex

Disderi was a very well known Paris photographer in the mid-1850s. He made several portraits of Emperor Napoleon III. This captain must have been very well off to afford having his portrait made by Disderi, who signed the photography, the coulour touching up having been made by Parfu,who co-signed the portrait. Quite a nice piece in its own right, I would think.

Regards

Veteran

[CUSSONNEAU]

Hello,

I try a potential identification about this officer : it could be captain Joseph MATHIEU, 1^st infantry regiment. (I have only seen the Army list of the year 1866 : additional officers could be identified).

Owing to Mr. Veteran, this is a captain belonging to the 3^rd battalion, 1^st infantry regiment, under the Second Empire, awarded with a chevalier de la Légion d'honneur, and à Crimea war medal with one clap, (surely Sebastopol).

The uniform shows a tunic with a double rank of seven buttons, according to the reform of August 14, 1867, so this photograph was taken at the end of the Empire.

Under Napoléon III, the Premier régiment de ligne has fought in the Crimea campaign, (not in Italy 1859), at Mentana in 1867 and in the Franco-Pussian war in the Army of Metz.

At the occasion of the Crimea campaign, this regiment was in garrison at Constantinople, (brigade O'Farrel), and was never landed in Crimea.

According to the rules about the attribution of the British medal, (circular November 15, 1856), these troops were awarded with this medal, but without any clap, as being only part of the Army between September 14, 1854 and September 8, 1855, but without any engagement ''under the fire''.

Among thirty captains in the 1^st regiment, according to the Army list, in the year 1866, twenty-one have served in the same regiment at Constantinople : all these officers must have been awarded - theoretically - with a Crimea medal without any clap.

Nine captains joined the 1^st regiment after the Crimea campaign ; only one corresponds with the awarding of the Crimea medal, one clap Sebastopol, (without the Italy campaign medal) :

ROUSSET Eugène Jean, from the 2^ème grenadiers de la garde impériale, fought in Crimea (Sebastopol), but also in Italy 1859 ;

BLOT Constant Hippolyte, and DOURS François Timothée, from the 1er Zouaves, Crimea (Alma-Sebastopol) and Italy 1859 ;

DEBORD Jacques, from the 3rd Zouaves, Crimea (Alma, Inkermann, Sebastopol) ;

DEFFUAS Pierre Antoine, from the 2^nd régiment Etranger, Crimea (Alma, Inkermann, Sebastopol) and Italy 1859 ;

ROSE Hyacinthe Siméon, from the 26th regiment, Crimea (Alma, Inkermann, Sebastopol) with the awarding of the Medjidieh 5^th class ; and Italy 1859 ;

TESTARODE Eugène Paul, from the 34th regiment, not in Crimea ; but present in Italy 1859 ;

BLIN Charles Marie, from the 10th regiment, in Crimea (Sebastopol) and not in Italy, (good candidate), but awarded with the Légion d'honneur only July 12, 1880.

The good individual could be captain MATHIEU Joseph :

In the 14^th light infantry battalion as second lieutenant in Crimea (Sebastopol), in the 1^st light infantry battalion as lieutenant between 1858 and 1860, that has not taken part in the Italy campaign 1859 ; promoted captain July 21 1862 ; in the 1^st regiment (1864 Army list) ; knight of the Légion d'honneur between 1864 and 1866 ; wounded August 16, 1870 at the battle of Rezonville, as captain in the 1^st regiment, in the Franco-Prussian war, and dead from his wounds, August 18.

(Note : in Crimea the 14^th light infantry battalion took part in the Azoff expedition (Yénikalé and St Paul's camp), but the Army was not eligible for the ''Azoff'' clap, reserved to the Navy, in France).

In the battle of Mentana, November 3, 1867, the 1^st battalion of the 1^st regiment was engaged (not the 3^rd battalion), suffering two casualties (wounded), and awarded with 1.627 commemorative crosses.

The casulaties in the Franco-Prussian war in the 1^st regiment (officers only), were :

Battle of Borny, August 14 : one mortally wounded;

Battle of Rezonville, August 16 : five KIA and eleven wounded ;

Battle of Saint Privat, August 18 : four KIA and 19 wounded (inc. colonel Frémont) ;

Battle of Noisseville, August 31 : five KIA and four wounded.

As indicated, I have not seen the Army lists 1867 to 1870, another gentleman could correspond to this photograph.

Truly yours

Michel

[rusticalex]

Thank you Michel - that is a fantastic piece of deduction, and although not conclusive, it is very interesting. :beer:

[Veteran]

Thank you Michel - that is a fantastic piece of deduction, and although not conclusive, it is very interesting.

That was CUSSONNEAU at his best....

Congratulations

Paul

[CUSSONNEAU]

Hello,

Little addition to the post : Seven names of captains, not given in the Army list of the year 1866, are among the casualties, in the Franco-Prussian campaign : (Argiot, Bignon, Chambry, Girault, Hennion, Rémignard and Simon), but none of them corresponds to the awards on the photograph.

Truly yours

Michel

[Voltigeur]

This officer is Capitaine Jules d'Auvergne, 1ere Regiment des Voltigeurs de la Garde. He was promoted to the rank of Capitain in 1848; joined the Imperial Guard in 1854 in the 1ere Voltigeurs; passed into the 6e Regiment de Ligne in 1861; promoted Chef de Bataillon 1862 and retired in 1866. This photograph was taken in 1869.

He is a Captain because he has a fringed epaulette on each shoulder: lieutenants had a fringed epaulette on the left shoulder and fringless on the right and sous-lieutenants the opposite.

His shako has the disctinctive joinquille over red pompon a flamme; the red over joinquille pompon was adopted on 17th OCtober 1854 replacing the previous entirely joinquille one. The shako has lace in V chevrons on each side, a feature unique to the Imperial Guard and it also has a rounded peak, again unique to the Guard as the Line had square peaks.

He can be closely dated to between 1857 and 1860 as that was when the Voltigeurs adopted the red trousers of the line, replacing the previous dark blue onesand before the Voltigeurs adopted a new uniform in 1860.

[rusticalex]

Wow, Voltigeur, that is amazing, thank you! I never thought that someone would be able to come up with a definite name for this man. Please can you tell me more about how you can be so sure of who he is? I'm fascinated! Do you have any further info about him? We'll probably never know why our family has this image of him and his badge, but knowing his name is just amazing - I'm sure I'm not the only one that reads this post that will think this!

Many thanks

Alex

[Voltigeur]

I have a copy of the same photograph but in black and white and a further copy of it - not mine! - also appears in Delperier, Malvaux, Joineau, "La Garde Imperiale du Napoleon III" on p. 57. In the past lots of copies of Cartes de Visites were made and given out as business cards the same goes with Studio Portrait like this one, by the prestigious Maison Disderi in Paris, which were given to friends and family.

HIs full name appears to be Jules Armand d'Auvergne.

I can only find him in the Annuaire de l'Armee for 1861 and 1866, sadly. I will have an other hunt!

[rusticalex]

Goodness, then I guess I was just really lucky! To know his name and a bit about him is just terrific. Thanks once again.

Alex