1st class Sacred Treasure on Ebay?

[taquito22]

I saw this on ebay...appears to be a 1st class Sacred Treasure, though sellar does not specify...he's asking $990.00. good deal?

[paul wood]

I saw this on ebay...appears to be a 1st class Sacred Treasure, though sellar does not specify...he's asking $990.00. good deal?

If genuine very reasonable, however there is something about the reverse of the badge (whether it is the photo or not) makes me uneasy, I'm wondering if it might be something emanating from China.

All the best,

Paul

[RichC]

It is a legitimate medal from Japan. However, with no case and no breast badge, I think the asking price is a bit high.

[Dieter3]

One of these went on Yahoo! Japan the other day, complete with breast star and case, missing the lapel rosette, for ¥263,000, almost $3,000 U.S. Condition was fairly good, I believe it was an older piece.

[Paul L Murphy]

The price is not unreasonable, however you would be much better waiting to get a full set with the breast star and case. As already noted above, that will set you back in the region of $3,000.

[Dieter3]

I totally agree with Paul. If you're really interested in this award and class, save your bucks and wait until a complete set comes along. It's not often, but a complete set in my opinion is a much better investment than bits and pieces.

[Satsuma]

The ribbon looks too thin for my liking and the ends look to be trimmed with pinking shears, often used by a tailor to minimise fabric threading. Hardly imperial issue. Also the back of the order has a sharp edge indicating it may have been pressed out from a sheet. If in doubt, steer clear. Refunds are too impracticle on eBay.

Satsuma

[Paul L Murphy]

It is probably a post war piece but it looks perfectly genuine to me.

[Dieter3]

Were there post-war versions with the rivets?

[Paul L Murphy]

Were there post-war versions with the rivets?

Yes. I think they changed the manufacturing style in the 1970s or 80s so you will still find rivets on post war items. Makes them very hard to identify when on their own.

[Satsuma]

Hi Paul and Dieter!

It is always good to be in the company of experts and I apologise if I dived in thinking the order is a fake! All order ribbons I've ever seen seem so much more "plush" and the backs always seem to have bevelled, or smoothed, edges - the back of this one appears to be machine-scratched and the edges are sharp (?). However, I've never seen a post-war order so my knowledge is very incomplete.

I wonder if I will ever solve the mystery of this piece.

Keep well

Satsuma

[Dieter3]

Well, Paul is the expert!! I'm far from it!! I'm just an enthusiastic collector (whose wife would kill him if she actually knew how much money I spent on my "hobby"...... ).

I do agree with your statement though - of the few (specifically Sacred Treasure) orders that I do have, most of them are post-war - and they too are smoothed like you have seen in other pieces. Highly polished too. Though I don't have any actual WWII era pieces upon which to comment - machining processes for the manufacture of many things were simplified, hastened, or otherwise went down in quality as industrial and materials pressure built and worked against Japan in a negative way. I'm assuming that medals and orders may have been similarly subject to these forces. I've indeed noticed some of the war-era Rising Sun pieces to have a rough, unpolished, very machined look to the reverse - somewhat similar to this piece. It may be possible that this one was also subject to the lower quality or hastiness of production?? Just a guess though, could be way off base with it. The pictures are kinda small to make out good detail.

It could just be genuine wear and aging eyeballs!

Edited February 14, 2010 by Dieter3

[Paul L Murphy]

I think a lot of the apparent sharpness is probably a combination of toning and harsh lighting when the photo was taken. I have seen a similar effect on medals I own where they actually look a lot better than the photo. This can often happen if there is irregular toning and the photo is taken under artificial light without a flash.

[Satsuma]

Thank you gentlemen for your detailed answers. It's a Monday morning and already I've learned lots! Well, after all, anyone going to bid?

[Paul L Murphy]

Not me. I already have a cased Sacred Treasure 1st class with certificate that was awarded to a British diplomat in the 1960s.

[Dieter3]

Not me either. I'm holding off on orders for the moment and focusing my $$$ on trying to nail down a really nice Boxer Rebellion or Nomonhan Border Incident medal. Haven't been too impressed with what has come up recently. Yeah, cheaper, but I'd rather pay higher price and get something really nice. (Might be holding out for a while!)

[alex82]

Not me either. I'm holding off on orders for the moment and focusing my $$ on trying to nail down a really nice Boxer Rebellion or Nomonhan Border Incident medal. Haven't been too impressed with what has come up recently. Yeah, cheaper, but I'd rather pay higher price and get something really nice. (Might be holding out for a while!)

That is exactly what I did Dieter…

Its for sure worth it to wait until you find one in good condition and with a nice case so good luck to you.

I hope I can find some interesting thins in Louisville on the "show of shows" this week to post here.

[Dieter3]

Sweet man! Yeah, it's typical - you find a nice medal, no case. A nice case, trashed medal, trashed everything, very seldom a nice combo of the two! And too many Boxers seem to be missing their lids for whatever reason (?). I've seen plenty of either though, some very nice ones, but in groups of medals that I simply can't afford or don't otherwise want. Oh well! Patience, one of these days.....

[alex82]

Hello Dieter

You said "And too many Boxers seem to be missing their lids for whatever reason". Funny that you mentioned that, I thought exactly the same thing over the past few years I saw so many Boxer Medals with ether a broken or a missing lid. Other medals like the WWI victory medal or the Taisho census for example with the same wooden case have always a complete lid. By comparing the case of the boxer medal with the other medals in wooden boxes I think that they are slightly different in fabrication, for example the boxer looks like if I would craft such a box, the parts are not fitting perfectly, and the others look like the work of a carpenter. I think the Boxer lid is also a bid thinner and easy to brake. however I wish you patience here it's worth it.

cheers

a l e x

[Dieter3]

Yep! Nicest Boxer I've ever seen for sale was purchased at auction, the case lid was taken, and then the medal with only the bottom was put back up for auction. Somebody must have had a DAMN nice Boxer that they needed a lid for or else that was a seriously dumb maneuver. Apparently, a lid is worth $100.00 or more as the gent lost about that much selling it than what he paid for it.

[Dieter3]

So, did anybody here end up with this piece?