bayonet markings

[smudge]

Hello

Could anybody help with interpreting these marks on an 1888 pattern British Bayonet? Could NR stand for Norfolk Reg. as suggested in one book I consulted which dealt with ww1 equipment?

Any info gratefully recieved. On 'pommel' area is stamped NR 86. On reverse of scabbard leather is U.N.V.T.C. 91. On wooden grip is a symbol similar to a capital W inside two concentric circles and also a capital B.

Cheers Damian

[Mervyn Mitton]

Smudge - welcome to GMIC. I have looked at your bayonet markings and must be honest and say I haven't identified them. The usual date marks and ' X ' for sold out off service are not there. The possibility of NR being Norfolk Regt. must be high - but it needs an expert on British Regts. to really tell you - hopefully Leigh will spot your post.

On the grip, does it have two, or, three brass studs holding it all together ?

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Damian,

I was looking through my reference books last night and cold not locate the information you are looking for. I was hoping to

welcome you to the GMIC along with the information but it looks like all can can offer for the time being is, "Welcome".

I'll keep looking.

Regards

Brian

[smudge]

Smudge - welcome to GMIC. I have looked at your bayonet markings and must be honest and say I haven't identified them. The usual date marks and ' X ' for sold out off service are not there. The possibility of NR being Norfolk Regt. must be high - but it needs an expert on British Regts. to really tell you - hopefully Leigh will spot your post.

On the grip, does it have two, or, three brass studs holding it all together ?

Mervyn, I omitted to mention the marks on the ricasso which are the X and proof mark for Enfield and the government arrow, on reverse side is an 8 and a '02 which i assume is the date and also the Edwardian crown.

It has two brass studs holding grip.

Thanks Damian

[smudge]

Hello Damian,

I was looking through my reference books last night and cold not locate the information you are looking for. I was hoping to

welcome you to the GMIC along with the information but it looks like all can can offer for the time being is, "Welcome".

I'll keep looking.

Regards

Brian

Thanks for your efforts Brian

Damian

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Damian,

Is there a chance that you could post photos of this when you are allowed by forum rules to post photos?

I know many members, myself included, would like to see it.

Regards

Brian

[Mervyn Mitton]

The numbers are for August 1902 - which was at the end of the War. They made a final pattern and then in 1906 the long Lee Enfield was introduced. The first pattern in 1888 had three brass studs - in triangular formation - holding the grip together - the second pattern had two - in line. This was the first issue to have a double blade - in the 1st WW many were cut down to make trench fighting knives. The 'X'

means it was officially sold-out of service.

[peter monahan]

"On reverse of scabbard leather is U.N.V.T.C. 91." Might it be "U. N. V. Training Corps", which would agree with it's having been sold out of service - gone to a cadet corp, perhaps at a University?

Anyone know any "University of New V..." or "University of N... V..." in the old Empire?

Peter

[Mervyn Mitton]

I am showing some pictures of this 2nd. pattern bayonet. The frog is original and was white at one time for a Ceremonial Guard at one of the POW Camps in Capetown.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Overall the bayonet is 17 inches ( 48cm)

The length of the blade is 12 inches ( 30cm)

[Mervyn Mitton]

[Mervyn Mitton]

Queen Victoria. First issued March 1898

[smudge]

Hello Damian,

Is there a chance that you could post photos of this when you are allowed by forum rules to post photos?

I know many members, myself included, would like to see it.

Regards

Brian

Brian

I have tried a couple of times to upload photos but it won't take them - too big apparently.

Cheers Damian

[smudge]

' alt='' class='ipsImage' >

"On reverse of scabbard leather is U.N.V.T.C. 91." Might it be "U. N. V. Training Corps", which would agree with it's having been sold out of service - gone to a cadet corp, perhaps at a University?

Anyone know any "University of New V..." or "University of N... V..." in the old Empire?

Peter

Peter

I read about about Volunteer Training Corps in the Great War and wondered if it could be Nottingham University- but it seems it didn't get university status until 1947. Then- trawling the internet - found something on Upper Norwood Vounteer Training Corps. See photo. ' alt='' class='ipsImage' > Must be a possibility.

Cheers Damian

[smudge]

I am showing some pictures of this 2nd. pattern bayonet. The frog is original and was white at one time for a Ceremonial Guard at one of the POW Camps in Capetown.

Brian

Nice bayonet with interesting history. Scabbard on mine is slightly different in that it has an internal chape and metal parts are blued.

Regards Damian

[Brian Wolfe]

Brian

Nice bayonet with interesting history. Scabbard on mine is slightly different in that it has an internal chape and metal parts are blued.

Regards Damian

Hi Damian,

I think you mean Mervyn; he posted the photos.

You can tell the difference between us as I am the good looking, yet incredibly modest, fellow.

Regards

Brian

[peter monahan]

Damian wrote:

"I read about about Volunteer Training Corps in the Great War and wondered if it could be Nottingham University- but it seems it didn't get university status until 1947. Then- trawling the internet - found something on Upper Norwood Vounteer Training Corps."

Excellent! Glad my suggestion was some help. Where exactly is "Upper Norwood"? The UK or one of the colonies?

Really nice looking bayonet! If you get tired of it, let me know!

Peter

[Mervyn Mitton]

Peter - Hi. Upper Norwood is one of those 1930's suburbs in London. All semi-detached and lace curtains - or, it used to be like that.

The bayonet should really go with my post on Medals and Swords - Captain Perkins. He was in charge of all Boer War POW camps in Capetown.

Just think - Capetown was Mil. HQ - I would think nearly every senior officer would have visited the camps - incl. Roberts - and this was the reason for a ceremonial guard. Perkins obviously kept this as a 'souvenir' - he certainly never carried-it. IM me if you have an interest?

Mervyn p.s. Frogs for this period are rare nowdays.

[leigh kitchen]

I'd worked out Volunteer Training Corps easily enough - I'm not sure if I'd ever have worked out the Upper Norwood bit though.

NR 86 - Norfolk Regiment, weapon no. 86 (the other obvious suspect for "NR" would be the Northamptonshire Regiment, but their abbreviation was "NN".

I think the "X" is to do with proofng Merv? It's used on British swords, is'nt it, to show the side to be used for bending tests. A symbol for decommissioned / sold off is "X" an X with a line through it looking like a pair of WD "arrows" point to point.

The 1888 Pattern Lee-Metford bayonet was'nt actually approved until June 1889 with the introduction of the Lee-Metford rifle. As Merv says, the original version had 3 rivets holding the scales on the hilt, with an oil hole between the top two rivets, but they were very short lived , givng way to this two rivet pattern. The pommel was altered in 1903 to one that looked like that of the "07",to fit the SMLE, the "07" bayonet being introduced in 1907.

Edited February 25, 2010 by leigh kitchen