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    • 2 weeks later...
    Posted (edited)

    Hello! I can't remember whether I had posted this medal in the past or not, but still I need help to identify it.

    Opinions from whoever has knowledge or experience of either faked commemorative 1915-18 medals or of unofficial productions will be very welcome.

    Long ago I purchased this Commemorative Medal of the Italy-Austria War 1915-18 with no markings and that is significantly different from the medal of any known manufacturer.

    Everything is strange of this medal, starting from the color of the bronze to the size of the figures, and in particular there are heavy signs of filing all around the brim. The name of the medal's designer (S.CANEVARI) is not present. The oak leaves on the obverse are doubled, as shown in the scans.

    I am pretty sure this medal is a toy or a fake, but this would be the first I see in my life, therefore I need more information if possible. Originals of this medal are so cheap and available in quantity that I would be surprised to learn they are faked for profit.

    In addition to pictures of the "suspect" medal, I post scans of it between two standard originals, for comparison.

    Thanks for your support.

    Sergio

    Edited by rocketscientist
    Posted (edited)

    Hello Sergio,

    The medal that you have described, and posted pictures of, is not a fake but a french reproduction contemporary to the period. It was produced in the early 1930's timeframe by the french medal production house of M.Delande in Paris. They were a well known french medal manufacturer who were a prolific producer of medals from not just France but a wide variety of european countries. During the same timeframe they produced medals and decorations from countries that were involved in the Great War of 1914-1918. These decorations and medals were illustrated in a fantastic 1934 catalogue produced by the Delande firm showing all the varieties.

    It was commonplace for there to be die differences in these french made reproductions compared to the originals. The details that you showed in your pictures are consistent with a Delande manufactured piece and the file marks on the rim are also common in these pieces.

    I will post a picture of my Delande manufactured reproduction, which was obtained during the final close-down sale of stock from that manufacturer, and you will see the details are the same. I will also post the illustration and entry from the 1934 Delande catalogue for your reference.

    All in all you have a nice 1930's french produced reproduction of a nicely designed italian war commemorative medal.

    Regards,
    Rob

    Edited by RobW
    Posted (edited)

    Sergio,

    Here is a scan of the illustration from the 1934 Delande catalogue; page 95.

    Regards,
    Rob

    Edited by RobW
    Posted

    Rob, this is a great piece of information! Finally I am able to close a case that I'm trying to understand since I purchased this medal in 2007... in France!

    Frankly, I was totally unaware of foreign manufacturers of Italian Medals, I was more keen to imagine that this was an example of a small private production for veterans far after the end of WW1. This is a common case for WW2 Medals in Italy, mainly because of the transition from Kingdom to Republic that occurred immediately after. I do not know whether it was also the case in the twenties with the rise of the fascism.

    To know that this medal is (a)not a fake and (b)not issued in the last 10 years is really a relief, I'm happy and grateful that you could clarify once for ever this issue.

    Regards

    Sergio

    Posted

    Hi Rob, you just added your last two posts while I was writing mine. I am glad to get more and more information concerning this medal and, with your last post, why it could be manufactured in France.

    All this is just exciting...

    Thank you

    Sergio

    Posted

    One last question, Rob!

    Do you know of any difference in the ribbon associated to this medal, worn by French veterans? The one coming with my medal has much lighter colours than a standard "italian" ribbon as you can see in the S.Johnson example I have posted for comparison. I just do not know (again!) whether the ribbon of the Delande medal is a bad repro or the correct one considering the specific agreement between italian and french governments concerning this award.

    Regards

    Sergio

    Posted

    Sergio,

    As far as I have been able to identify the french medal manufacturers also produced the ribbons for the medals. I would suggest that maybe it is a french produced ribbon but don't have any further information than that. French ribbon that I have seen has different hues and colours than the original ribbons.

    My example did not have any ribbon attached to it.

    Regards,
    Rob

    Posted

    I think that a scan of the awarding document would be interesting in this thread.

    It says:

    "The Minister of War

    decrees

    the soldier <your name here> is authorized to bear the medal instituted in memory of the war MCMXV-MCMXVIII

    Rome, the day june 17th, 1921

    The Minister Giulio Rodinò"

    • 2 weeks later...
    • 2 weeks later...
    Posted

    Hello rocketscientist,

    My Lorioli's version of the Commemorative Medal for the War of 1915-1918, with two campaign bars: 1917 and 1918. No idea whether the bars are original.

    There are quite a few different variations of these date bars. Some have been posted on this thread already but other variations continue to appear in the market. Given the large number of manufacturers of the medal it stands to reason that there would be a similar number of bar manufacturers.

    These bars were also produced, both officially and unofficially, for service in Albania. These are now becoming quite difficult to obtain.

    Regards,
    Rob

    Posted (edited)

    To one and all,

    There is, at the moment, a small collection of 6 different varieties of the Commemorative Medal on ebay italy.

    The varieties are listed as:

    • variante : S. Canevari / Mario Nelli
    • variante : S. Canevari / Sacchini Milano
    • variante : S. Canevari / C. M. [Lorioli-Castelli]
    • variante : S. Canevari / S.J. (Johnson)
    • variante : S. Canevari / S.I.M. Roma
    • variante : S. Canevari

    Noting that the auction is still in progress, and not being too presumptive I will post the pics for general information.

    Regards,
    Rob

    Edited by RobW
    Posted

    Hello Sergio,


    Do you know of any difference in the ribbon associated to this medal, worn by French veterans? The one coming with my medal has much lighter colours than a standard "italian" ribbon as you can see in the S.Johnson example I have posted for comparison. ...

    Regards

    Sergio

    You will notice on the most recent posts of the 6 varieties that there are a number of different shades of the ribbon. This is a good example of the ribbon varieties as well.

    I hope that this helps you in the identification of not only the medal varieties but also the ribbon varieties as well.

    Regards,
    Rob

    Posted

    Thanks Rob, but I am not sure that all the posted medals have a period ribbon. Also my medals, or some of them, very likely have replacement ribbons.

    I have not spent enough time so far in studying ribbons, I am still not capable to recognise original one from new productions.

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