(another) Bayonet ID please .. KW&C

[nazfrank]

NO markings other than the WK&C with the knight and king above it. Note that the grips are held on by 3 rivets. No marrks on the spine and no marrks on the sheath. Thank you .. 3 pictures below

Edited April 5, 2010 by nazfrank

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello nazfrank,

Looks like the Kurz Seitengewehr 98 or KS98, 1901.

It was the original small sawback bayonet in the German service and produced from 1900 to 1935.

The scabbards were all steel.

The one you have looks to have had the saw teeth removed which was a common practice as WWI wore on. It was best known as being carried by the machine gun formations and was extended to the air-ship units (Luftschiffe) as well.

I almost forgot. This fits the Mauser Model 1898 rifle.

I hope this is of some assistance.

Regards

Brian

Research material: Bayonets of the World, Paul Kiesling, Volumn One, item #133.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Brian Wolfe

[nazfrank]

Hello nazfrank,

Looks like the Kurz Seitengewehr 98 or KS98, 1901.

Good morning,

Thank you for the response and information. I'd like to offer it for sale here at GMIC in the "for sale" section. What would be a fair price for a buyer on a bayonet in this condition? No dents on the sheath and original knicked and chipped finish. The bayonet has surface rust, no damage to the grips and the blade tip is peened over a tad. Maybe someone needs the sheath? Thanks in advance... Frank

Edited April 6, 2010 by nazfrank

[Mervyn Mitton]

Brian's details are correct and it was the short version of the sawback bayonet - they had a much bigger version known as the buther blade. During WW1 the British let it be known that any German soldier found with the saw teeth intact would be shot. They then tended to file the saw blades off. These bayonets were popular in German South West Africa.

In good condition they can easily fetch £150/£250 ($240/375) - however, I would say this is showing it's age and has the saw back missing.

Since you are planning to sell the bayonet I am not prepared to recommend a price - you can check on Google - give the details and mention prices - that usually brings something-up.

[Brian Wolfe]

Brian's details are correct and it was the short version of the sawback bayonet - they had a much bigger version known as the buther blade. During WW1 the British let it be known that any German soldier found with the saw teeth intact would be shot. They then tended to file the saw blades off. These bayonets were popular in German South West Africa.

In good condition they can easily fetch £150/£250 ($240/375) - however, I would say this is showing it's age and has the saw back missing.

Since you are planning to sell the bayonet I am not prepared to recommend a price - you can check on Google - give the details and mention prices - that usually brings something-up.

I would say that the removal of the saw teeth is not fatal, that is to say, it has its own merits. Mervyn is correct that the saw teeth were removed during the war and this makes it an important piece of bayonet evolution and history itself. The value is still well below the specimens with teeth and since it has been decades since I actively collected I will not venture to guess at a value either.

One of the interesting points about the presence of saw teeth is that a story was circulated that the teeth would tend to draw intestines out of the wound when the bayonet was withdrawn from the abdomen. This was of course false as the teeth point forward and were to be used as an actual saw and not to disembowel the enemy. The teeth did make a much more nasty wound than bayonets without teeth. The Butcher Blade style also had a version with teeth and were issued to pioneers (engineers) to cut limbs for machine gun emplacements etc. They are also found with the teeth removed. There was a much longer bayonet yet that predated the First World War that was produced with and without teeth.

I really miss that part of my collection but one cannot hold onto everything forever.

Regards

Brian

[nazfrank]

Good morning,

Thank you all for the ID and additional info. I went to post it for sale here on GMIC but see that I am blocked from posting on the for sale forum .. probably because I called another member an idiot when he responded to a belt buckle ad by saying "they are reproductions". Too bad for you guys as I had prepared a dozen items after approximating values and ID's. Bayonets, 1800's Imperial medals, belt buckles, medallions and paper documents. eBay legal items will be here eBay listings and the buckles, and some other items will be on another forum. Sorry, I guess you can't call someone an idiot and then go have a beer with them here.....

[Brian Wolfe]

Good morning,

Thank you all for the ID and additional info. I went to post it for sale here on GMIC but see that I am blocked from posting on the for sale forum .. probably because I called another member an idiot when he responded to a belt buckle ad by saying "they are reproductions". Too bad for you guys as I had prepared a dozen items after approximating values and ID's. Bayonets, 1800's Imperial medals, belt buckles, medallions and paper documents. eBay legal items will be here eBay listings and the buckles, and some other items will be on another forum. Sorry, I guess you can't call someone an idiot and then go have a beer with them here.....

Hello nazfrank,

I wouldn't say that. After all I beileve I replied to your post stating something to the effect that there was no need to use that sort of language here etc. and yet I was very happy to give you the information on the bayonet. That's like having a beer with a fellow member after "having words" albeit mild words (so it would be light beers then? )

Perhaps you are not allowed to post for sale until you have more posts. Check the rules, as I don't know what they say about this. Also, didn't that member also prove your items to be genuine? My memory on this is fogging.

Anyway, check the rules that may be the problem.

Regards

Brian