Mounted Constable

[speagle]

Saw this from a friend. Sorry - no details available.

Edited April 19, 2010 by speagle

[leigh kitchen]

Trying to make out the medals - 2nd & 3rd ones QSA & KSA?

[coldstream]

Any chance of some close ups Speagle

Simon

[Mervyn Mitton]

A great picture. I think it must be Metropolitan Police - and probably from around the 1880's/1890's. Swords were discontinued about that time. Also, the helmet is the Met. style with Rose - not the one which followed the top hats. What is interesting is that pushed into the straps of his cape - carried across the saddle in front of him - is the standard leather cased truncheon of the period. When swords were withdrawn the Met. carried an ash stick, bound with twine.(about 3'6'' long. 105cm) This had a leather guard and was carried in a bucket scabbard - this was always known as a sabre.

Would be good to have confirmation - a close-up might allow the medals to be seen - as Leigh asked. Also, the helmet plate might come into better detail.

[1314]

Initial Thoughts - First medal would most likely be 1887,1897 Jubilee or 1902 Coronation.Can anything be made of the design on the bridle boss ?

Incidentally,when were the Mounted Branch first established and how were they numbered (collar),were they a separate division or blistered on to the establishment of whichever station to which they were posted ? - Intrigued.

[Tom King]

I agree it looks like Met the building is possibly the stables at Great scotland Yard. I have a photo of mounted branch somewhere from a similar period will look it up. I also think the first medal is a Jubilee or Coronation as they used to take precedence over campaign medals.

[speagle]

Thanks for all the comments folks. This is the best I can get.

Ed

Edited April 20, 2010 by speagle

[Mervyn Mitton]

Sir John Fielding - the first magistrate for the Bow Street Public Office, set-up a force of mounted patrol officers in 1763. They were known as the Bow Street Patrol and were very effective. They were re-formed in 1805 by Sir Robert Ford - the Chief Magistrate at Bow Street. They were the first uniformed and paid men in the history of English policing. They were eventually absorbed into the Metropolitan Police - after 1829. The main reform of the Branch was in the 1919/20's and it was probably from this date they they wore standard numbering for Divisions.

[speagle]

Sir John Fielding - the first magistrate for the Bow Street Public Office, set-up a force of mounted patrol officers in 1763. They were known as the Bow Street Patrol and were very effective. They were re-formed in 1805 by Sir Robert Ford - the Chief Magistrate at Bow Street. They were the first uniformed and paid men in the history of English policing. They were eventually absorbed into the Metropolitan Police - after 1829. The main reform of the Branch was in the 1919/20's and it was probably from this date they they wore standard numbering for Divisions.

Thanks for the info Mervyn.

Ed

[Tom King]

The Bow Street Horse Patrol was incorporated into the Met Police in Oct 1836. Also the outer Divisional Superintendents as well as a good number of Inspectors & Sgts in the outer Districts were mounted for supervisory purposes. Up until 1886 their main duties were seen as country patrol although they were very occasionally used for disorder purposes. After rioting in the West End in 1886 they were seen as a public order resource and more stables were centralised. After the first war because of the advent of the motor vehicle the outer division mounted resources were reduced. Mounted officers prior to the formation of Imber Court Riding School were also traditionally ex Cavalry. I am pretty sure that mounted officers were also always shown on Divisional strengths therefore only had Divisional Collar numbers. Here is another photo taken possibly at Chigwell stables just prior to the first war at a guess, it is hard to see their collar numbers but I think I make out J and K divisions.

Also notice that in both pictures the officers are not wearing duty armlets which may be peculiar to the mounted branch.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Tom - another great old photo. Interesting in that the truncheon carried is cased - but is not the sabre, which was longer. Perhaps this was the interim one between swords and sabres ? Now that sabres have been withdrawn, I see they are / were back to carrying a standard wooden truncheon. What has happened with the change to the ASP - are the Mounted branch now carrying this ? Must be difficult to swing down to the right to use it - and, the momentum could cause serious injuries.

[Tom King]

Today they carry long acrylic batons which are used for public order events. I am not sure about the whether they have access to long extending ASPs or not for daily patrol. But the acrylic baton is allowed to be carried by all officers as an alternative to the ASP which mostly used for public order as opposed to daily patrol.

Here is an interesting photo taken at the 175 anniversary of the Met at Horse Guards Parade. It shows an Inspector and a Commander (Mick Messenger) in Full Dress Uniform. What makes me sad is the lack of thought that goes into withdrawal of equipment. The Ash sabre should have been retained for Ceremonial duties when it was withdrawn in the 1990s now they have nothing, it was the same with the No1 uniform that should have been retained by the likes of mounted branch who are often involved in ceremonial duties.

But of course Senior Officers conveniently have still got all their full dress regalia including swords whilst the junior ranks have nothing. Also note that Senior Ranks seem to be able to bypass Health and Safety by not wearing ridiculous helmets. That equestrian helmet may be fine for daily patrol, but for Ceremonial it looks horrendous.

[Mervyn Mitton]

You raise some very interesting questions with this photo . You will know better than I, that the rank of Commander is fairly new - I think it came in early 70's. The equivalent army rank is full colonel - against Lt. Col. for a Ch. Supt. I mention this because under the early regs. only the Comm.; Dep. Comm.; and the four Asst. Comms. rated a bi-corne hat with swans feathers. These had a blue section to denote Police and for the Assts. were quite short - only really being at the top of the hat.

The point I am making is that here we have a senior rank - but, not that senior - wearing the head dress of a General ? The Parade Commander for the Trooping of the Colour is usually an Asst. Comm.,or, the Deputy Comm. and swords are worn - however, swords would not have been in his rank specifications. Was he the Parade Commander - it would seem so with his Sgt.? For members not familiar with the customs of the Met. Police , even the Trooping has to be nominally under a Police Officer for movement and public order - the civil authorities always being in charge - unless martial law is declared.

You are of course quite correct that the withdrawel of the traditional uniforms and equipment has weakened morale and lessened their dignity in the eyes of the public. As a police historian and an exConstable it saddens me to see how casually things are discarded - often , because a 'high flier' writes a long thesis on why it would be better to change traditions. This happened with our armbands. When my book was first published I was invited onto a major TV show - run by a husband and wife team, it was an investigative programme. The Met. had just apoointed an exBrigadier from the Army to Hendon. His first act had been to try and discard the wooden truncheons in favour of a small kung-fu flail. Two short pieces of wood joined by metal links. They demonstrated this and then I was asked to speak from a Constable's perspective. I said it was rubbish - how could you, amongst many other examples, break a window to gain entry in an emergency to a home - I won my point and I have never heard of it again. But, someone won - we now have a German expanding commando weapon from WW2 - I bought one in Berlin in the late 1960's and it is identical in materials and operation to the ASP....

[Mervyn Mitton]

With the mention of different patterns of Mounted Police batons, I thought I had better post a picture of them. The caption is self explanatory and I think in the above photo, the type of staff is the first one - later changed to the sabre.

Copyright: The Policeman's Lot. Quiller Press. 1985