The Real Band of Brothers

[fallschirmjager]

Hi All

I got these two Boer War albums. Now the interesting thing is that the inside cover definately had details written on but have now been properly errased and the inside first cover page has been cut out - on both albums! I'm a bit suspicious as to why somone would do this (perhaps it was after the end of the war and thus the seller knew he would get more for them by selling as during the war)!? The inside has an Edinburgh chemist stamp and there appear to be Scottish caps being worn at various points as well as standard FS Helmets. Would anyone like to take a guestimate at the units and the time period?

Regardless, these are superb pictures showing various aspects of Boer War activity in several British (or Empire), units - enjoy!

Close up of the above helmet:

[Stuart Bates]

Always good to see period photos of soldiers in the field.

I have strained my eyes to the max on the flash to the helmet. The second letter could be either "V" or "W". If "V" then I have no idea but if "W" if could be 1st Battalion Duke of Wellington's.

Can you improve the scan of the flash so the letters can be identified?

Stuart

[fallschirmjager]

Always good to see period photos of soldiers in the field.

I have strained my eyes to the max on the flash to the helmet. The second letter could be either "V" or "W". If "V" then I have no idea but if "W" if could be 1st Battalion Duke of Wellington's.

Can you improve the scan of the flash so the letters can be identified?

Stuart

will give it a go!

[leigh kitchen]

I think I'm way out here, but I'm wondering if the men in the bonnets could be Scottish Horse. I don't know offhand what insignia they would have worn on sun helmets (rosette with metal badge?)but does "SH" fit the photos?

[Stuart Bates]

Oh the power of persuasion. Leigh, you had me thinking that the letters were indeed SH but I just can't be sure.

Looking at Formation Sign 229 Jan 2008, I find that according to Ron Kidd the Scottish Horse wore slouch hats with an oval rosette on the left hand side as follows -

This is backed up by Barlow in the booklet Uniforms of the British Yeomanry Force 1794-1914 #8 Lovat Scouts and Scottish Horse.

Stuart

Edited May 7, 2010 by Stuart Bates

[paul w]

The flash could be DW,does look like a V though but that could be the quality of the pic.Attached pic found of Duke of Wellingtons Regt flash ,cheers,

Paul

[paul w]

Scottish Horse head dress

[Stuart Bates]

Paul,

where did you find this flash? Have you a date for it?

It could be the one we are all after but we need a better scan of the helmet.

Stuart

[paul w]

Its from a Bosleys catalogue Stuart,cheers,

Paul

[Stuart Bates]

Paul,

did you photograph that from a catalogue or did Bosleys supply it. I have never had a response from them other than the state of my catalogue subscription.

Stuart

[leigh kitchen]

Ah good - I was just about to suggest DW as being something that could fit, tho that second letter could be an "M". Wise after the event as usual.

I thought I had some photos somewhere of the DW patch beng worn but can't find them if I have.

[fallschirmjager]

The SH badges and hat in the above pictures are all dated 1903 onwards. The SH during the boer war did not wear a wreath underneath the 'X'. Also Stuart is correct in that they were slouch hats as the bonnets did not come in till after the Boer War. The 'DW' is a possibility, what unit is this? I'll try and get some better pictures tonight! Thanks for your help so far.

Footnote - the Yellow flash under the SH badge is again post boer war, yellow was for 1st regiment and red for second. During the Boer war the Murray of Atholl tartan was worn behind the badge either a square or a oval!

Edited May 7, 2010 by fallschirmjager

[Stuart Bates]

Kipling & King describe 8 variations of the Scottish Horse badge. The first two are described as -

"A voided oval inscribed Scottish Horse 1900 with St Andrew's Cross superimposed. In hand-cut brass." and the next one the same but in bronze and with a yellow cloth with serrated edge.

Some of the above badges did not have the date 1900 on them. This is backed up by Barlow but I think he got it from K & K as well.

The one I showed is indeed dated from 1903. I will tell Ron Kidd.

But K & K are saying that the yellow cloth was used during the Boer War. Fallschirmjager where did you get your information about the cloth not being used in the Boer War and the two different colours used? I know that we are getting off the original topic but all information is valuable.

Stuart

[Stuart Bates]

I just went back into Barlow's booklet Uniforms of the British Yeomanry Force 1794-1914 #8 Lovat Scouts and Scottish Horse.

There is a photo of officers and sergeants taken in 1901 prior to their departure to South Africa and it shows two sergeants with a backing to the badge on their slouch hats. The author maintains that the original photograph, in the Regimental Collection at Dunkeld, shows this more clearly than in the reproduction of that photo in his book.

Barlow also has a photograph of the slouch with feathers and a badge with no backing at all. It is dated 1903-1914 and is an officer's. I guess some licence was taken as was usual in the British Army.

GOT...TO...GET...BACK...ON...TOPIC...

Stuart

Edited May 7, 2010 by Stuart Bates

[fallschirmjager]

Kipling & King describe 8 variations of the Scottish Horse badge. The first two are described as -

"A voided oval inscribed Scottish Horse 1900 with St Andrew's Cross superimposed. In hand-cut brass." and the next one the same but in bronze and with a yellow cloth with serrated edge.

Some of the above badges did not have the date 1900 on them. This is backed up by Barlow but I think he got it from K & K as well.

The one I showed is indeed dated from 1903. I will tell Ron Kidd.

But K & K are saying that the yellow cloth was used during the Boer War. Fallschirmjager where did you get your information about the cloth not being used in the Boer War and the two different colours used? I know that we are getting off the original topic but all information is valuable.

Stuart

Stuart, the SH were only originally formed to compose one regiment, laterly a second was formed. So the first regiment would not have chosen yellow as a flash (I call them flashes as thats what we wore back in my para days!), this is backed up in the book 'southern cross scots' and where it identifies the patch as murray of athol tartan (oblong but also squares). Although I do admit the information is not detailed. The yellow and red may have come in during the later part of the Boer war but I doubt if anyone would have wanted to change the murray tartan in such a high espirt de corp and close knitted unit. Also the pictures I've seen either have tartan or dark patches (although I know some yellows go dark on period pictures)! I conjecture that the red/yellow came in after the unit was reformed in later part of 1902.

Also agree on different badges - the early contingent wore field cut badges oval with 'X' and 1900, the newer Scottish contingents wore a circular stamped cross see my avitar! No doubt when they came together then they probably unified things! But one thing I'm sure off is that some say that the 'ScH' badge was worn on the hat, I really don't believe this, it was a shoulder title!

Yes its grey and murky out there, than goodnes they had some form of cameras otherwise it would be very murky!!

p.s. notice the lack of a feather plum in this picture! Again I think this depends on where the pictures were taken and issue of kit etc!

[fallschirmjager]

Some badges - not mine unfortunately all supplied by various collectors!

[fallschirmjager]

I hope to put a Website together soon detailing the SH history (Boer War only), Uniforms, personalities, medals, etc! So would of course welcome any info on them and/or help! Stay posted!

OK off to take better pics of the albums - back to topic!!!

[leigh kitchen]

How about a thread on The Scottish Horse? I have a few photos & badges.

And while your'e at it, one on The Paras?

Edited May 8, 2010 by leigh kitchen

[paul w]

Stuart,the photo of the flash is from a Bosleys on line catalogue.Just for info the Duke of Wellingtons Regt were part of the 6th Division at the battle of Pardeburg (pardon the spelling if its wrong)among other engagements.In the 7th Div at the same time were the Kings own Scottish Borderers, could they be your jocks in the album?,cheers,

Paul

[fallschirmjager]

OK this is the best I can do the original photo is just not sharp enought! I've posted some other pics, hope you like them!

[fallschirmjager]

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[fallschirmjager]