Michael Collins cap badge Adams sale April 2010

[molders]

Hello,

I got a request to post a link to this thread here and would be grateful for any informed opinion on its content.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055869883

[Paul L Murphy]

I agree with you on this one. It is definitely a post 1924 cap badge. If you look at photos of Collins in Free State Army uniform his cap badge is smaller than this pattern (which did not exist while he was alive). The auction description is also carefully worded. Somebody was burnt on this, a rather expensive lesson.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Paul L Murphy

[PKeating]

In Ireland, any scrap of old green cloth is a piece of the flag raised above the GPO in 1916 and everyone had an ancestor in the IRA...

[Ceallach]

What is the badge size difference ? Did anyone get to measure it ? Was the Adams cap badge approx 6 mm larger in diameter than a 1922 all ranks pattern cap badge ?

Regards - An Ceallach

[Paul L Murphy]

What is the badge size difference ? Did anyone get to measure it ? Was the Adams cap badge approx 6 mm larger in diameter than a 1922 all ranks pattern cap badge ?

Regards - An Ceallach

I know a couple of people who handled it and all said it was the larger post 1924 patttern size, not the earlier version.

[Ceallach]

I know a couple of people who handled it and all said it was the larger post 1924 patttern size, not the earlier version.

I assume that this discrepency was brought to the attention of the auctioneers ? Wonder what their position was ! They should be held to account here and perhaps invited to equitably recitfy the situation. Time for a rogues gallery ?

Regards - An Ceallach

Edited May 8, 2010 by Ceallach

[PKeating]

I have an original solarised stone print of a photographic portrait of Sir Roger Casement done during his visit to Dresden early in 1916, before the Easter Rising. It was for a German propaganda book. I showed it to Adams in 2006, the 90th anniversary year, to see how reliable they were as valuers and they suggested that it might fetch about €300. Oh, and it's signed, with provenance back to the photographer via the German collector, a prominent hotelier of the 1900s up to the 1930s, and his family. There was almost total disinterest, which indicates a certain fundamental ignorance of the sort I recall encountering at Sotheby's and Christie's when it came to militaria and related ephemera. Doesn't make them rogues. It merely suggests that they might not be as expert as they wish people to think, as this Michael Collins' cap badge affair further suggests.

PK

[Irish1916]

. It merely suggests that they might not be as expert as they wish people to think, PK

On a similar note to PK, my collecting started with a 1916 & 1966 set with provenance, being deemed a fake by Whyte's auction house. My research confirmed for me that this late issued replacement medal set differs from the original but was genuine and a new hobby was opened to me. As previously discussed here the best expert opinion is achieved with a culmination of ideas and knowledge from the likes of the highly experienced collectors who kindly share their thoughts on this forum, a consensus from the hard hitters displayed above on any subject is hard to dismiss.

[molders]

I seen the badge and it was the large sized one, it was also made from brass not bronze (look at the rubbed high points of the badge in the photo)