Acting Conductor on medal rim

[Tony]

Hello,

Can anyone tell me what an Acting Conductor in the Supply and Transport Companies may have done during the Great War?

Would he have been in the ASC, AOC, worked on busses or had something to do with music?

What's the rank of Acting Conductor equivalent too?

I've bought a medal to a soldier of that rank but can't find his MIC although I did find his MSM award card which doesn't show his service number.

Thanks

Tony

[paul wood]

Hello,

Can anyone tell me what an Acting Conductor in the Supply and Transport Companies may have done during the Great War?

Would he have been in the ASC, AOC, worked on busses or had something to do with music?

What's the rank of Acting Conductor equivalent too?

I've bought a medal to a soldier of that rank but can't find his MIC although I did find his MSM award card which doesn't show his service number.

Thanks

Tony

Acting Conductor of Supplies, senior NCO in the ASC and STC

Paul

[peter monahan]

Acting Conductor of Supplies, senior NCO in the ASC and STC

Paul

The rank goes back several centuries but by WWI was a senior warrant officer - equivalent to a Staff Sergeant Major - in the Ordnance, Service and Transport corps. Apparently they exist today as well and are Warrant Officers 1st Cklass - RSMs and standing at the right hand of God to we sprogs one!

Edited June 15, 2010 by peter monahan

[Mervyn Mitton]

Just an interesting side note to Peter's answer. The first Thames River Police patrols were in the 1790's and were organised by the West India Company to stop looting of their ships in the West India Docks - (opp. Greenwich). They became the Thames River Police after the Metropolitan Police in 1829. However - each rowing boat had two rowers and a Conductor in charge - I suppose he would have been the equivalent of a sergeant.

[Tony]

Thanks for the replies.

Still no luck finding his MIC but I'll keep searching.

Tony

[leigh kitchen]

Who is he? Perhaps his acting rank or appointment isn't listed on his MIC, only his substantive?

[Ralph]

For the period in question the Rank of A/Conductor S+TC would indicate service in the Indian Army rather than the British so the MiC may not be at The National Archives.

[Tony]

That's interesting Ralph.

Leigh, the man in question is JS Neal.

Apart from his MSM card which has Mesopotamia stamped on it, I've only found the MIC for a Gunner JS Neal in the RA whose entitlement was a pair.

Tony

[leigh kitchen]

Service number? Theres are a few j. Neals......

I think I've found him on the National Archives:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=6547185&queryType=1&resultcount=1

Looks like it may be the MSM card that you've already got though?

Edited June 17, 2010 by leigh kitchen

[paul wood]

Service number? Theres are a few j. Neals......

I think I've found him on the National Archives:

http://www.nationala...1&resultcount=1

Indian Supply and Transport Corps according to the Gazette. Not in the 1924 Indian Army War Services List nor in the 1919 IAL.

All the best,

Paul

[Tony]

Yes I think it's the MSM card too as no number is present. I don't have his number either.

So does Indian Supply and Transport Corps mean limited research unless I can somehow find his number or what JS stands for? Did you find the gazette entry Paul?

Tony

[paul wood]

Yes I think it's the MSM card too as no number is present. I don't have his number either.

So does Indian Supply and Transport Corps mean limited research unless I can somehow find his number or what JS stands for? Did you find the gazette entry Paul?

Tony

London Gazette 22 September 1919 Page 11779 "...in recognition of valuable services rendered with the British Forces in Mesopotamia." In 1919 UK army list as Temporary Warrant Officer ASC, Supply and Transport, Temporary Rank from 3 March 1915. Page 2285C. Possibly seconded to the Indian Army so you may be able to find out more about him. Doesn't appear in later army lists so presumably discharged after the war.

All the best,

Paul

[Tony]

London Gazette 22 September 1919 Page 11779 "...in recognition of valuable services rendered with the British Forces in Mesopotamia." In 1919 UK army list as Temporary Warrant Officer ASC, Supply and Transport, Temporary Rank from 3 March 1915. Page 2285C. Possibly seconded to the Indian Army so you may be able to find out more about him. Doesn't appear in later army lists so presumably discharged after the war.

All the best,

Paul

Thanks Paul.

Tony

[Tony]

I thought I'd add a couple of pics of the medal in case anyone is interested. To me, apart from a little tarnish, I imagine it looks as good as it did on the day it was issued.

Approximately 1050 of this first type George V MSMs were awarded and it's less common than the immediate awarded MSMs which show the recipient's service number.

I've read that some show the King in his Field Marshal uniform whereas others show him crowned and others with the same head as found on coins. Was there any reason for this or did someone just fancy a change?

Tony

[Tony Farrell]

The GV 'Field Marshal's bust' was replaced by the short-lived 'coinage' (uncrowned) effigy. This was used on the Army MSM from 1932-36. Why the change? Not entirely sure, but it was not the only issue to undergo an obverse design change around this time. I would imagine it was something to do with updating worn dies. The crowned effigy of George V, or 'robed bust' was not used on the (UK) Army MSMs.

[Tony]

Thanks for the info Tony.

Tony

[leigh kitchen]

Any change of swivel / fixed suspenders Tony? Or was that just the LSGC of the reign & not the MSM?

[Tony Farrell]

MSMs were swivelling until 1926, whereupun fixed suspenders were introduced until the mid-1950s.