Greece - Military Medal of Merits

[Tim B]

I had asked some questions on these medals in another thread dedicated to the ribbon attachments that went on various Greek awards and thought it would be better to start a separate thread instead of taking that thread too far off topic. So, I'll move my last two posts here to start.

On the 1917 version of the Military Merit Medal, I wanted to ask if there was a difference in the coloration of the medal itself?

I notice on Megan's site: http://www.medals.org.uk/greece/greece017.htm the different levels of the award are slightly different in tone and wanted to know if these were all bronze with slightly different finishes, or if the medals also had different colors depending on award level?

I'll post a comparison to show what I am referring to below. One clearly looks more dark bronze while the other has a golden look to it. Is it possible that the darker ones are more modern strikes, or is it just the finish fading over time, perhaps due to metals used?

I understand that the same medal was initially used in 1940 (Medal for Outstanding Acts) until a change in design came about. After that, I think the original medal was no longer manufactured?

Tim

[Tim B]

One more comparison here; note that the die characteristics are slightly different on the leaves. The example on the right is clearly more refined in the strike than the other.

Also, note the suspension ball is rounder on the more "refined" example as well. Clearly "ball" shaped and not squeezed like the other one. You can see this difference between the examples in post 14 & 15 as well.

Different manufacture; time period? ... Thoughts?

Tim

[Kev in Deva]

Difference in colour down to manufacture variation,in my opinion.

there seems there could be up to 9 types, with slight variations

including those made by the following makers:-

Sui/Rivaud - Huguenin - Kelaidis - EME/Anagnostopoulos

One design with 6 feathers to the wings of the bird as opposed to 7

normally seen.

On some medals the dates "1916 - 1917" have been taken off for unknown reasons.

Apart from the type.01 and .o2) all the others have also been awarded as "Medal for Outstanding Acts." a short time after the Greek - Italian War began in 1940, at first (until 1950 *) the Medal of Military Merit was awarded, with additional clasp on the ribbon with the year "1940" (two types of clasp are known to exist) the one class medal was awarded to officers, non commissioned officers and men of all the Armed Forces, Public Safety Corps and to anyone who offered exceptional service in facing the enemy.

It was awarded either during the war or afterward for actions that took place during the war. A small silver (silvered) crown was added to the ribbon for each subsequent award to the same person

* the 1950 version has a similar shape but the central design differs and has the date "1940" to the rear.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

Edited June 26, 2010 by Kev in Deva

[Tim B]

Hi Kevin!

I think you're correct here and there seems to be some variation even among manufacturers.

I have to run around today but, I have been working with a collector in Greece and think I have identified the different styles to Rivaud, Kelaidis, and Anagnostopoulos for starters. Once I am sure of these, I will post examples with some die characteristics called out.

Cheers my friend!

Tim

[Tim B]

Hi Kev!

Finally have some time to sit down and put up what I have thus far. I have to utilize PIC's taken from other sources for these examples as I am waiting on mine at the moment.

Here is an example of the Rivaud type medal.

Note the narrow leaves on the front, and of course the stamping of: L.Süe (Sculptor) A.A.Rivaud (Designer) Salonique 1917 on the reverse (black arrow). This example has the ball-type suspension and I understand there is also a rarer version that utilizes a small attachment ring instead of the "ball".

Tim

** Added a better PIC **

Edited July 1, 2010 by Tim B

[Tim B]

Here's a Kelaidis example: Again, one of the main differing areas on these are the style of leaves on the front and in some, the style of numbers used on the reverse dates.

I am not sure if there were any variations in this manufacturer.

Tim

[Tim B]

This one could also be Kelaidis, though I am not sure. The general die characteristics look the same but, if you look closely at the date numerals, they appear slightly different.

Tim

[Tim B]

The next one I will show is that of ANAGNOSTOPOULOS. These appear to be the most common ones encountered, at least currently.

Looking at some PIC's, I believe that this one might have had multiple dies, or possibly a reworked die at some point in time and I'll show why I think that as the posts follow.

Tim

[Tim B]

As before; looking at the leaves on the front, these appear to be very sculpted with the veins much more pronounced compared to the other versions by other manufacturers. I've put some arrows up to point out a couple of the areas to show what I mean here.

On the reverse, note the shape/style of the number "7". This is common on all ANAGNOSTOPOULOS Merit Medals that I have seen and is different from the other makers.

Tim

[Tim B]

Here's another example by ANAGNOSTOPOULOS.

This is, IMO, a later produced piece. Either a reworked die, or a 2nd die that might have had some changes made from the original. Very similar in appearance with minor leaf differences. Note, the "7" is identical.

Tim

[Tim B]

Here's a side by side comparison of the two ANAGNOSTOPOULOS pieces. The one on the left is the earlier and the one on the right is what I believe the later with die differences.

Note the red circled areas:

The two smaller circles show a deeper indentation on the leaves and would indicate either a worn or dirty die, or retooling after the die may have worn down and needed to be cleaned up. The indentations could not have come earlier and then "disappeared" on the other version, so this had to happen later on in production.

The larger circled area points to a particular leaf and if you look carefully at the leaf tip, you can see the original "swirl" is still there but, the leaf design has changed and now shows a shorter tip as well. Again, this points to a later change IMO.

Tim

[Tim B]

Just to make sure those minor die characteristics weren't specific to one piece, here's three identical Merit Medals.

[Tim B]

... and you can see all three have identical die "flaws" as shown above in the later piece.

Tim

[Tim B]

I haven't seen the version you mentioned with six feathers. Do you have a PIC to show here?

I was told, the version with ELLAS and no dates on the reverse is the rarest of all versions. I have not seen one of those either.

Cheers!

Tim

Edited June 29, 2010 by Tim B

[Tim B]

Well, you guys don't talk much here, do you?

Thought I would put up my first pickup in this area: Cased 4th Class by ANAGNOSTOPOULOS.

Virtually mint condition! It's a start.

Tim

[Hugh]

Well, you guys don't talk much here, do you?

Thought I would put up my first pickup in this area: Cased 4th Class by ANAGNOSTOPOULOS.

Virtually mint condition! It's a start.

Tim

Some of us don't have much to say, but we're watching and learning.

Hugh

[Tim B]

[RobW]

Well, you guys don't talk much here, do you?

Thought I would put up my first pickup in this area: Cased 4th Class by ANAGNOSTOPOULOS.

Virtually mint condition! It's a start.

Tim

Hello Tim,

I would add the example from my Greek group of 9 but I see that the pic has already been posted.

I also have another Greek group of 6 but it too has the L.Süe (Sculptor) A.A.Rivaud (Designer) Salonique 1917 mark on the reverse.

Regards,

Rob

[Tim B]

Hi Rob,

Yes, I had a different PIC originally posted but it just didn't show the designer and sculptor's names too clearly. Your example shows this detail much better for thread purposes. Very nice and one type I hope to add someday.

It appears your similarly marked War Cross is also made by Rivaud.

Tim

[Kev in Deva]

I haven't seen the version you mentioned with six feathers. Do you have a PIC to show here?

I was told, the version with ELLAS and no dates on the reverse is the rarest of all versions. I have not seen one of those either.

Cheers!

Tim

Hi Tim,

Not much free time on my hands at the moment, that and power outages while the local supply transfers cables to new posts and installs a new transformer in the next street.

but I hope to get around to a picture in the next day or so if the local electric are obliging with regards supplies.

The book I mentioned is very handy for reference to Greek medals

you should try and get your Greek friend to source a copy.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[Tim B]

Hi Kev!

Can't wait to see what you got to show!

Tim

[Kev in Deva]

Hi Kev!

Can't wait to see what you got to show!

Tim

Only a book picture I am sad to say.

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[Kev in Deva]

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[Kev in Deva]

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[Kev in Deva]

Kevin in Deva. :cheers: