Greece - Military Medal of Merits

[Tim B]

Hi Kev!

Thanks for posting those!! So, there are more makers than originally thought here and still another "Ellas" version with no dates. I didn't realize there were that many different versions.

Version 112.08 (a; b) is curious. 112.08 has six-feathers but, (a) and (b) both have seven. Minor die differences/changes from the same maker?

Looking at the last group of PIC's showing the attachments, I see the numbers awarded and can now understand why we don't see many of these awards around.

I found a so-called ELLAS version with no dates (pictured below).

Thanks again! Tim

Edited July 13, 2010 by Tim B

[Kev in Deva]

Hi Kev!

Thanks for posting those!! So, there are more makers than originally thought here and still another "Ellas" version with no dates. I didn't realize there were that many different versions.

Version 112.08 (a; b) is curious. 112.08 has six-feathers but, (a) and (b) both have seven. Minor die differences/changes from the same maker?

Looking at the last group of PIC's showing the attachments, I see the numbers awarded and can now understand why we don't see many of these awards around.

I found a so-called ELLAS version with no dates (pictured below).

Thanks again! Tim

The numbers shown are actually a prices / values price guide given the variations

and NOT issue numbers. The source being published in 2001.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[Tim B]

Hi Kev,

I did wonder if it was a price guide initially but seen the breakdown of Army/Air Force and Navy and then thought against it. Were the items different for the various services?

Tim

[Kev in Deva]

With regards the information in columns on that page,

I assume the only way to determine a Naval award is with the Brevet or if on a bar with Naval awards, there is no mention in the book about there being a different "version" for the navy.

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

Edited July 13, 2010 by Kev in Deva

[Kev in Deva]

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[RobW]

Hello Tim,

I also have another Greek group of 6 but it too has the L.Süe (Sculptor) A.A.Rivaud (Designer) Salonique 1917 mark on the reverse.

Regards,

Rob

Hello Tim,

And here is a close-up of that medal.

Regards,

Rob

[Tim B]

Kevin,

A few questions here; on the list you show in the book, are they numbered in any specific order? Like first or oldest, to latest example?

I note there is no 112.01 shown and I am curious to know where the example with the designer & sculptor's name is, as I do not see it listed.

That brings me to the next question. Is Sue and Rivaud the first known variety, as I have heard they were the two soldiers that first came up with the design?

Tim

[Kev in Deva]

Kevin,

A few questions here; on the list you show in the book, are they numbered in any specific order? Like first or oldest, to latest example?

I note there is no 112.01 shown and I am curious to know where the example with the designer & sculptor's name is, as I do not see it listed.

That brings me to the next question. Is Sue and Rivaud the first known variety, as I have heard they were the two soldiers that first came up with the design?

Tim

Hallo Tim,

There is no indication as far as I can ascertain in the book as to first or oldest

made or issue.

A. A. Rivaud was the French sculptor André Adolphe Rivaud (1892–1951).

He was involved in the design of many Greek medals.

The picture of 112.01 is located on another page.

Front

Kevin in Deva,

[Kev in Deva]

Rear.

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[makedon]

Hello Tim,

It is always nice to see foreigners with an interest on Greek awards.

The version without the dates on is usually found on old varieties (such as the Sue-Rivaud or the Huguenin one) and it was probably used during the Minor Asian Campaign 1919-1922, but later on it was decided to leave the initial dates on. SO, we see all Military medal types until 1974 to have them.

The thing is that the medals without the dates are NOT different versions. They just took the originals and scratched them!

I wouldn't pay more to acquire them.

I will try to scan and send you some very interesting and scarce types that are not in the book.

Makedon

[Tim B]

Good to know and nice to see more collectors joining in here!

Tim

[makedon]

Here are some photos of Greek military merit medals, covering a period from 1917 to 1974.

Check the first, curved type, which also comes in white metal and the second, holed one.

Both are probably of french manufacture.

[makedon]

Reverse of the above.

[makedon]

Details of the first two varieties

[makedon]

Reverse

[Tim B]

Wow! That's a really nice group collection you have there! I especially like the one with the cutout details; really stands out!

Thank you for sharing and adding two more types to my list. I think, possibly, that the first one (curved = convex or vaulted?). As this one has no dates, I assume this is the version that is considered the scarcest of the bunch?

Tim

[Kev in Deva]

Reverse

Nice collection of awards,

but looking at the way the reverse looks on the fretted / cut-out model

particularly the way it crops close to the dates I suspect this is an

unofficial veteran alteration to an official medal or is there documentary

evidence to say otherwise?

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[makedon]

Convex or vaulted would be a more appropriate term, I guess!

But, this also has the dates 1916-17 engraved on the reverse. I have seen it as part of a medal bar (see the attached photo, belonging to General Nikolaos Trikoupis).

[makedon]

The cut-out medal is much thicker than the known versions. I don't know whether we can name it a "veteran's issue" or a private order, but it has a resemblance with a french made War Cross 1916-17. You can see this pair-sorry for the bad quality. They came together as a lot, when I bought them. Check the War Crosses I added in the site.

Based on the number of articles and the extensive modern Greek military History, I think it is about time to establish a separate section for "Greece", as there is for other countries, isn't it?

[Tim B]

I think it's a legit style, as I have seen different Greek medals and orders of similar design from the late 1800's that are cutout like this as well.

Tim

[makedon]

I think it's a legit style, as I have seen different Greek medals and orders of similar design from the late 1800's that are cutout like this as well.

Tim

Hello Tim,

I do not agree with you in this. The manufacture is definetely foreign, probably french as I stated.

The only Greek medal that resembles this style is the Cross of Independence, but this was issued in the 1830s and the differences are important.

It worths mentioning that the only Greek medals issued during King George I's Reign (1863-1913) were

-The Royal Household medals

-The medals "For Valor" and "Lifesaving with danger of life "

-The Seamen's Fund medal for Saving life at sea and, probably, for services to the merchant navy.

All of the above are scarce. Very little is known for the first three- when, why and to whom they were given.

[Tim B]

Hi,

I'm not arguing the point of "who" made the medals (France or Greece), just that the medals with cutouts are, IMO, original and not something a veteran did to alter the original medal.

Here's two examples, I know they are not the same as the Medal of Merit, just using them as case-in point-examples on medals with central cutout areas.

Tim

Greek Prize for the Independence War 1821/9:

[Tim B]

And, the Greek 1843 Proclamation of Constitution. Again, not the same medal, but showing cutouts here on original items.

Tim

[Le Crabe Tambour]

Hello,

Does a brevet exist for this medal during the WWI, like for the Greek War Cross?

Thank you very much for the answer.

Best regards,

Laurent.

[makedon]

Hello Laurent,

A brevet does exist and it is pretty rare. I am attaching a photo of both War Cross and Military Merit medal, 1st World War.

If interested, I might have a double.