19th Hussars 1862-72

[MC Ellice]

I am researching an ancestor who was a Captain in the 19th Hussars from 1862 - 1872. Prior to that he was in the 1st Bengal European Cavalry. I have found some info that indicates that this unit was stationed in Bengal or Meerut (is that in Bengal) from before 1863 till 1870. He later died in Brisbane, Australia - his death certificate says he was a capt in the 19th Hussars, but I can't work out whether he was still in the Army at that stage or if he had been discharged. Is it likely that members of the unit would have been stationed in Brisbane - acting as the police force perhaps? Also, I am wondering how often and how long he may have had leave in England. His family were not stationed with him in Bengal, and I am just wondering how he managed to be the father of 3 children if he was OS!!

Does anyone have any suggestions where I could go to get more info.

[peter monahan]

I am researching an ancestor who was a Captain in the 19th Hussars from 1862 - 1872. Prior to that he was in the 1st Bengal European Cavalry. ... his death certificate says he was a capt in the 19th Hussars, but I can't work out whether he was still in the Army at that stage or if he had been discharged. Is it likely that members of the unit would have been stationed in Brisbane - acting as the police force perhaps? Also, I am wondering how often and how long he may have had leave in England. His family were not stationed with him in Bengal, and I am just wondering how he managed to be the father of 3 children if he was OS!!

Does anyone have any suggestions where I could go to get more info.

The 1-5th Bengal European Cavalry regiments wre a stop gap measure - created in 1857 after the Indian Mutiny, in which 7 of the ten or so Indian Bengal cavalry units mutinied. Only three of the Bengal Eur. units actually existed [other than on paper] and all were taken into the British Army in 1861, probably broken up and parcelled out to existing cavalry units.

It was quite common for British officers after leaving the army to be referred to by the highest rank they attained, so Captain Hornswoggle of the Princess Hohenzolleren Fore and Fit Regiment of Foot, would go by "Captain', even official documents like marriage licences and death certificates reading "Captain Hornswoggle, late of Her Majesty's .... Regiment".

As to the children conceived while Daddy was in foreign parts, I won't decend to the humour SOME people on this list resort to but point out that Indian Army officers got a full year of leave as often as every eight or ten years and some wives did travel out with thier spouse to far corners of the Empire. If he was 1st European Cav. he was likely employed by John Company or some other commercial enterprise prior to joing up and, if an officer in that unit may have been of sufficient social stature to have his family with him, as many of the 'commercials' stayed out in India for decades.

Very unlikely that the 19th were stationed in Australia that late, if ever, but as he seems to have had a wandering foot anyway - he was in India first - the retired captain may have taken his army back pay and decided to try for a new life Down Under.

Tuppence worth!

Peter

[MC Ellice]

It was quite common for British officers after leaving the army to be referred to by the highest rank they attained

Thanks, that probably explains it - wasn't sure if they kept it.

I would say he did have the wandering foot and may have been seeking a new life (or may have been sent out by his family as I suspect he was the black sheep of the family!!).

As for the humour, it is probably bang on correct! - the thing is I don't think he was married and my suspicion is he might have been the father of only 1 of his children!! Especially as child 4 was born several years after his death!!! My suspicious brain suggests it was convenient to use the surname! I would just love to prove that he really was the father as he had an amazingly well known and succesful family!

[Stuart Bates]

I looked in my Army Lists and found Henry Edward Ellice in the 19th Hussars until 1872 when he is recorded as being "on half pay, late 19th Hussars" from 8th January 1868. He does not appear in my next list of 1875.

The date of his promotion to captain is 1st July 1857 and the 19th Hussars were formed from the 1st Bengal European Cavalry on 30th September 1862, so presumably he retained his rank when the regiment was transferred to the British Army.

The British Regular Forces left Australia (i.e. the colonies of Australia) in 1870 and it was not at all uncommon for British officers to take leave in Australia from stations in India etc.

Hope this helps.

Stuart

Edited July 18, 2010 by Stuart Bates

[Stuart Bates]

BTW: he was commissioned Cornet 20th December 1849 and promoted Lieutenant 18th August 1852.

Stuart

[MC Ellice]

Stuart,

thanks for that info (yes, you guessed the right person). He actually died in 1872, which presumably means he was on half pay till his death. Why would someone be on half pay? Would it be a pension or something similiar? I know that he travelled to Brisbane in early 1871 from England (pre-census date - bother), as I found him listed in the newspaper shipping arrivals. It also apears he died intestate in Brisbane. I assume if the British Forces had left Aust by then, it would have been private business and nothing to do with the Army.

If he was on half pay, and if it was a pension - would he have a record that I could access somewhere. I would love to know if his family would have received a pension or anything when he died (if they did, and if there was a record I might be able to confirm them as actually being his family). I am aware there are various records that might be available (eg. I know there is a record of enlistment which I found listed as being available from LDHS microfiche) and I have identified that there are some records in the British National Archives, but I am unsure how I could access them without visiting London (I am in Aust). Do you know anything about obtaining this type of info, and is it likely to be useful to family research?

MC Ellice

[peter monahan]

Half pay was a form of what we would consider 'reserve service' and a way of keeping former officers around between wars. Most of the Royal Navy officers went on half pay after the Napoleonic wars and never served at sea again, as the fleet was cut back immenseley in 1815 and after. Half pay was not strictly a pension, however, and ended with the death of the recipient.

Records of half pay officers would have been kept by the War Office. I have no idea where they are now but Stuart or one of our UK members may know.

Edited July 18, 2010 by peter monahan

[Stuart Bates]

I just had a look at the National Archives and it seems that no information is available online. There is a book http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/bookshop/details.aspx?titleId=376 Army Records by William Spencer that purports to help people research the archives. I do have it but can't find it . You might be able to locate someone in London would would search the archives for a fee. I just googled "archive researchers london" and there are such people.

If you want information on his family you should try Ancestory.com but you will have to pay for this. The London Gazette is also very good but can result in many, many issues to read. I did a search on Henry Edward Ellice 1860 - 1872 and came up with this http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/1860-01-01;1872-12-29/exact=henry+edward+ellice/start=1 . Here I used the "exact match" option otherwise you get hits on "Henry", "Edward" etc.

Sorry I can't be of much use but as Peter says one of the UK members may be able to.

Stuart

[MC Ellice]

Thanks Peter and Stuart for your replies. It is amazing what little snippets of info turn up in the newspaper. I hadn't seen the English newspapers online before - so this is really useful.

[Stuart Bates]

I just found the book Army Records and it gives the document numbers in the National Archives and other Institutions where you will find the information on your ancestor. But only his military service so of limited value?

The Census records would be another avenue as a Census was held every 10 years from 1801 although 1841 seems to be the real start date. I did a free search and got the following http://www.thegeneal...ent=Census+1861. You have to pay to get the full details.

Births, Deaths and Marriages?

Stuart

AH! I see you have already thought of the census - I missed that one.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Stuart Bates

[Stuart Bates]

I suppose that you have already checked BDM in Queensland and found the following entry -

1872/B7453 Henry E. Ellice - Ellice Elizabeth Courtney ** born London aged 41 years

I presume that Henry was born in London and died at age 41 - I doubt that he was born 41 years old . That would put his year of birth at around 1831.

According to the East India Army List of 1851 he was a cornet in the First Regiment Light Cavalry. This was a Bengal Army unit.

Stuart

Edited July 21, 2010 by Stuart Bates

[MC Ellice]

Thanks Stuart. You must like searching! Yes, I had found the Brisbane BDM - in fact that is the launch pad for the enquiry, as that is why we found out he was a Captain in the 19th Hussars. Interestingly he is buried under Lang Park (Suncorp) Stadium - where the State of Origin matches are played.

Yes, I suspected that the Army service records would not have much value trying to find out who he actually was - although it will probably explain why he was never in a census!! I cannot find him any at all. I also haven't found his birth record either, but I have only looked at what is available online. He may even have been born overseas whilst his father was posted somewhere or other.