MIXED GROUP - INCL. RED CROSS

[Mervyn Mitton]

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Nothing really out of the ordinary with this mixed group. The trio on the left is named to Pte. D.A.Frankenstein - Star: 8th MR (Mounted Rifles)

the Pair to same name but, 4th. SAI ( this was part of the Brigade that fought at Delville Wood). The Star means - in all probability, that he fought in South West Africa. Sth. Africans did not go to France until after the Star was discontinued.

The two - War & Victory - in the middle are named to Dvr. G.A. Hyne - S.A.S.C. (Sth. African Service Corps.) - he was the Brother of Mrs Frankenstein.

On the right are the medals to the wife of the first man . She was obviously quite senior in the Red Cross and the medals are the Sth. African Voluntary Service Medal,solid silver, given for two years unpaid service in any part of the World. This is followed by the Red Cross Medal - with bars and named to C.Frankenstein. Then there are the 20, 10 and 3 year awards + various badges. Always nice to have these and they add interest.

You will realise that with this name that the family were Jewish and this adds to the group,' alt='' class='ipsImage' > as there is a collecting field for Jewish servicemen and women. However, I must say that after all the films, I think I would have changed my name - but then they pre-date the films........

ps. Sorry about the double picture - perhaps it could start a new trend ?

Edited August 16, 2010 by Mervyn Mitton

[peter monahan]

Fantstiche! Family groups have always appealed to me but mostly one sees brothers or father & son, not man and wife. Another nice catch, Mervyn.

Peter

[Strapper]

Hi Mervyn... does Mary Shelley know you've got these...:-)

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi - Strapper. I've been meaning to say hello ! Whereabouts are you in Sth. Africa - and please give us a first name - much more friendly. I'm not sure who Mary Shelley is ? I'm guessing she collects Jewish material - we get a a lot of enquiries. Perhaps you could IM me her email - or, let her know ? Best wishes Mervyn

[Michael Johnson]

My wife's great-grandfather emigrated from kr Frankenstein. Formerly in Prussia, now in Poland, with a different name.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Thankyou Michael. I hadn't realised it was a place name. I had been thinking, perhaps, Rumania or, Bulgaria areas. Out of interest, did the family retain the name - must have been quite annoying for them with the early films ?

Many of our older Jewish familes in Sth. Africa, have Latvian or, Lithuanian roots - they came here during the Russian pogroms of the 1880's. This is maybe why I didn't recognise the origins of this name.

[Strapper]

Hi Mervyn, sorry it's just my bad sense of humour. Mary Shelley created Frankenstien in her Victorian Novel. She wrote the book. The first name is David and I'm on the East rand in Johannesburg. I never cease to be amazed at the quality and amount of posts you make, not to mention your collection. I'm moving to the eastern Cape next week and have just bought a metal detector...Hoping those Eastern Cape border wars will offer up something of interest. My interests are primarily in South African Militaria, history, but as you know, the more you learn, the more you get interested in.Hope to post some Eastern Cape finds soon, alot of Vetrans retired down there and you find nice medal groups and stuff. Sorry about the attempt at humour. Cheers David

[Mervyn Mitton]

David - I knew that ! Just didn't connect - I was thinking along collector lines. Just shows how 'tied-up' we become in our own narrow fields. It wouldn't be the first time I've been caught out - there was a lovely occasion on the Lounge. One of our American friends showed a picture of a Marine with Roosevelt - he wasn't trying to make a 'funny' but, I didn't realise they were waxworks and started asking all sorts of questions on age -

I tried to explain by saying it was a 'senior moment' - but, it was funny.

Please remember that it is a serious offence in Sth. Africa to use a metal detector on any historical site - and if on private ground you need an agreement with the owner. The Police in Natal have been taking action against finds on beaches - they say it is 'theft' if not handed-in ....

Hope the move goes well - and keep in touch with the Forum. Mervyn

[Strapper]

Mervyn, I do know about the rules with battlefields and monuments, but the beach?...Drat I'll be digging up tin cans in my own garden.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Have just found some additional history on Pte. David Andrew Frankenstein. I knew that he was in the right unit for Delville Wood - we have now found out that he was wounded twice - the first on 27/7/1916. After the main battles for Delville Wood the area was taken , and held, by German Forces. South African losses were so bad that they had to be re-formed and became the 2nd. Division.

Pte. Frankenstein must have been in the original defense, was reformed and on the 27 July was wounded during the attack on German lines to re-take Delville Wood. This was succesful and we held the area until 4th. August. He was wounded for the second time on 30 August 1917 - however, we are not sure at this time where it took place.

I have mentioned this before - but, it bears repeating. For the Canadians the defining battle of WW1 was Vimy Ridge - for the Australians and New Zealanders it was Gallipoli - and for South Africans, it was Delville Wood. The smaller populations of the time and the heavy involvement of non-regular troops ensured a terrible sense of loss in the Civilian populations - and this has continued to the present. Although, sad as it may be , these days it is hard to find any youngsters who even know about WW2 !

[sabrigade]

Hi Mervyn,

Some "ENDLEY" inputs.

The 1914-15 Star was issued to South Africans for service in the then German South West Africa.

Some South Africans were issued with the 1914 Star and they were members of the RFC who were in England for flight training when the war started.

They were granted permission to serve on the Western Front but were later summoned to serve in the GSWA and the East African campaign where they formed no 26 Squadron of the RFC.

The most noted member of this group was General "Sir" Kenneth Van der Spuy who was captured during Operation Archangel.

The 8th Mounted Rifles were the "MIDDELANDSE RUITERS" in GSWA.

The Roll Call or list I have for Delville Wood lists a Pte D.A. Frankenstein of the 3RD SAI who was wounded in the Battle.

The 3RD SAI was the Transvaal and Rhodesia Regiment.

The 3RD SAI was disbanded in 1918 when the British Brigades were reduced from four infantry or rifle battalions to three.

It is possible that your man was transferred to the 4th SAI after his battalion was disbanded.

The 4th SAI was the South African Scottish Regiment.

I would suggest you check and confirm the date for his wounds as the Brigade entered the Wood on the 15th of July and were relieved on the 20th of July 1916 at 18h00 in the evening.

Casualties sustained were 2320 men and the only time the Brigade returned to the Wood was for a medal and memorial ceremony on 17 February 1918.

During late July 1916, new South African drafts arrived from Bordon in England to replace the losses and the Brigade was reformed. These new drafts consisted of approximately 40 officers and 2826 men.

The next action was from the 23rd of August 1916 when the Brigade did front line trench duty in the Vimy area.

The 1ST SOUTH AFRICAN INFANTRY BRIGADE never became the or a 2ND BRIGADE, the 2nd and 3rd South African Brigades served in German East Africa.

In 1918, after the German Offensive the Brigade became a Composite Battalion due to major losses but was later again established as a South African Brigade.

I dont have my major sources and references with me in Khartoum so I apologize for my limited input.

Hope it helps!

Regards,

Will

[Mervyn Mitton]

Thankyou, Will. Valuable additional information - I had only seen ref. to 4th SAI - so, as you say, he may have been transferred. With so many casualties they had to fill-in where they had men available. Does go to show that even common groups can have a good history.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Mervyn Mitton

[sabrigade]

Hi Mervyn,

I agree completely.

I have a file on each individual's medal group that I have been privileged to take care of.

I believe in detail research.

Regards,

Will