Kriegsmarine GWL U-boat badge opinions

[John R]

This badge was just posted on WAF but almost no comments yet. I think it is probably a fake, but not 100% sure. The shape of the catch, the way the catch is integrated into the badge, blobs inside the legs of the swastika, the head of the eagle is missing a piece and what looks like cast holes on the side of the badge does not look right.

It is close though on first glance and not quite the same as the new fakes coming out of Germany for this badge.

John

[John R]

The holes I am talking about.

[John R]

Front of badge. Possibly artificially aged?

John

[Guest IMHF]

I hate reproductions! Takes the fun out of collecting That is why I stopped collecting in this era of War;)

Lorenzo

[John R]

There are a couple ways to look at this of course Lorenzo. Reproductions are a plague for everything from stamps and coins to art and antique silver spoons. Go buy a 70s muscle car and you better have an expert there to check it out first.

I do not think the war badges of the Kriegsmarine are too difficult assuming you have put in the effort, just like a stamp collector, to know the hobby. You can depend on dealers, at your risk, just like the rich depend on their favorite art dealer with predictable results. Or you can be a professional collector I guess. Then again, we have several good forums you can use and plenty of books for reference. The books do not help you develop a feel or an "eye" but at least start you in the right direction.

So I do not think there is anything here to scare anybody off, but it does mean you have to be aware of what is going on with fakers before you put down a load of money on a badge that catches your eye at a show.

It is a professional hobby now and that is just the way it is, probably going to get worse of course, but I still do not think the fakers can do it right quite yet in this area of collecting. Their target is the 98% of collectors they snag online or at shows that do not realize what is going on. Awareness is the key.

Yes, I am not sure about the above GWL badge, but that just means I would not buy it. If it turned out to be real, OK, fine. I am glad. But I still would not take the chance based on what I see here and instead would wait for an example of this type that met my requirements. I have one already that does in any case.

John

[John R]

By the way, wait 70 years and see how much Iraqi war relics are faked.

So, when you are an old man, you probably will have a million dollar collection you bought for pennies now and new guys will be complaining about how to tell if a honest to goodness Saddam Hussein beret is real or not along with an authentic pistol from one of his palaces.

John

Edited August 17, 2010 by John R

[John R]

Well, it is probable that this was just a poorly made badge in the first place. I am not seeing anything that leads to a definite conclusion that it is a copy at this point. Good on the right to compare. John

[Gordon Williamson]

I tend to think that it is indeed just a mediocre quality late war piece, but genuine. The casting flaws around the edge are not all that unusual on late war castings like this.

[John R]

This seems to be the consensus at this point, thanks Gordon.

John

[John R]

Here are the measurements of the badge at the top:

Width: 47.0 mm

Height: 38.3 mm

Thickness (max): 2.8mm

Wingspan of national emblem: 31.8 mm

Weight: 18 gr.

These are smaller than the dimensions given by Gordon in Torpedo Los which were:

Width: 48.6 mm

Height: 39.2 mm

Thickness (max): 3.5mm

Wingspan of national emblem: 33 mm

Weight: 18 gr.

So I am back to not liking this badge since it is a likely cast of an original IMO. The measurements were double checked by the owner so this is what they actually are.

John

Edited August 19, 2010 by John R

[John R]

Here are the measurements from 3 other GWL badges, all period:

W - 48.9, 48.9, 48.3 (this one vaulted)

H - 39.3, 39.3, 39.3

Wt - 17.8g, 18.6g, 18.3g

These match what Gordon has in Torpedo Los and not the badge at the top.

John

[Gordon Williamson]

Interesting, but somewhat strange.

Normally, a casting in Zinc will shrink by approximately 5% as it cools, so if a mold had been made using an original as the master, one would expect the resultant casting to measure something like (with the actual weights of the piece in question in brackets)

W - 48.9 shrunk to 46.46 (47.00)

H - 39.3 shrunk to 37.33 (38.3)

Certainly, its a little smaller than known originals, but not so small as one would expect a fake casting to be.

Very strange, but certainly enough to make this one to be wary of.

[all1knew]

Hello there,

It looks original to me.

William Kramer