Which German units were near Ypres in July 1917

[Tony]

Does anyone know which German units (especially artillery) were facing the British in the area known as 'Battle Wood' and 'The Bluff' (to us) at the end of July 1917? I should say that 26.7.17 is of most interest to me.

I think the Germans called Battle Wood 'Bayernschlo?' but I could be wrong. The general area south of Hooge down to Hollebeke south east of Ypres/Ypern is where I mean.

Thanks

Tony

[David Gregory]

Tony,

119. Infanterie-Division and 204. Infanterie-Division had been involved in heavy fighting at Hooge in June.

119. I.D. remained in the area, but 204. I.D. was transferred to Upper Elsace by the third week of July. I don't know which unit took its place, but I'll look it up for you this week, and find out which units were south of them.

David

[Tony]

Cheers David!

[David Gregory]

Tony,

A minor update: 119. I.D. seems to have been replaced at Hooge by 6. bayerische Reserve-Division some time in late June/early July. By the time of the major British attack on 31 July, 22. Reserve-Division was holding the sector south of Hooge and 10. bayerische Infanterie-Division was immediately below it, which suggests that 22. R.D. and/or 10. b.I.D. were facing the area you are interested in during the immediate period before the attack.

I'll check some regimental histories when I get home tonight and post a map of the area (provided my scanner co-operates). The Ehrenb?cher for the Feldartillerie and Fu?artillerie will probably also reveal a bit about the German gunners operating in the are at the time.

David

[Tony]

David,

I've a few maps of the area myself. Below is a section from the Reichsarchiv book ?Flandern 1917? and a piece of trench map.

I have the pair and ID disc of a soldier from Bermondsey (my part of London) who was killed in the trench named Imperial Trench on 27th July.

The trenches are marked in red because that was the German frontline before the mines on the Messine Ridge were blown (the trench map is from April 1917), by the time he was killed the frontline was about a mile further east bringing me to the conclusion that he and 8 other members of his unit were killed by artillery on that day.

I think I've found the position of where the trench would have been and have marked it in red on the slightly updated map. I hope to go there later in the month and take some photos and might just pop along to the Somme too as I have the trio to another Bermondsey man who is remembered on the Thiepval memorial. I haven't found out exactly where he was killed yet.

On a side note, do you know where the RIR 94 were at the time? I only know they were in the White Sheet area in June 1917.

Tony

Edited January 4, 2006 by Tony

[Tony]

These are the approximate positions of the trenches today

[Tony]

The map with German names.

I actually now think that Battle Wood may have been Schmidh?user on the German map.

Edited January 4, 2006 by Tony

[Tony]

No, I've changed my mind. Battle Wood was south of the Ypres/Comines canal.

Tony

[David Gregory]

Hi Tony,

I can't do any better with the maps, but I'll see what I can find in the regimental histories.

Do you fancy a trip to the area in the not-too-distant future?

David

[Tony]

Hi Tony,

I can't do any better with the maps, but I'll see what I can find in the regimental histories.

Do you fancy a trip to the area in the not-too-distant future?

David

I'm taking my son in a couple of weeks to show him the general area where his great Grandad (inf. Regt. 94)rolled in the mud in field grey and where his great great Grandad (RGA/Lab. Corps) rolled in the mud wearing khaki.

If you want to go along one weekend just give me a shout, it's worth going if only for the chocolates, chips and beer.

Tony

[Tony]

I am a plonker sometimes. There I was asking about the 94th and I have their regimental history on the bookshelf.

They were at Warneton when the ridge was blown and took part in the ensuing fighting. After a number of losses (64 killed, 173 wounded and 10 missing) they were taken out of the line for rest at Linselles for a month.

The Regiment returned to the line in late July where they were situated just east of Zillebeke, which is only a mile roughly (if that) from Hill 60. They took another bashing there (6 officers and 109 ORs killed, 8 officers and 376 ORs wounded, 1 officer and 138 ORs missing) and came out of the line at the beginning of August.

This time they rested until the beginning of October in the line at Bullecourt and only lost 10 killed and 45 wounded.

They returned to Flanders on 2nd October to the area they all knew well, on the 4th the tanks broke through positions in Zonnebeke and got through to Broodseinde. Before being taken out of the line on 20th October, one of their MG NCOs was wounded in the hand by an aeroplane bullet while watching a dogfight. I believe M v Richthofen was in the area at the time so I wonder if they were watching him giving chase or being chased.

Losses for 2 ? 20 October were:

8 officers and 115 ORs Killed

13 officers and 338 ORs wounded

16 men missing

3 officers and 210 men off sick (lazarettkrank)

They didn?t get back into the thick of it again till they drew the short straw and were sent to Kemmel in April 1918 (officers-13 killed, 24 wounded, 1 missing 2 not feeling well, ORs 155 killed, 655 wounded, 45 missing and 156 off sick).

Tony