Austria-Hungary MVK II. class - 2nd award

[Xtender]

Hello Gentlemans,

is this MVK II class - 2nd award with WD/Sw really original or later copy?

Marko catalogue - MVK with WD/Sw - 2nd award....only 5x awarded. Is it true?

I have seen picture of one original, but the green enamels in 2nd award are another design.

http://007.007.sweb.cz/Military/MVKII-1.jpg

http://007.007.sweb.cz/Military/MVKII-2.jpg

http://007.007.sweb.cz/Military/MVKII-3.jpg

http://007.007.sweb.cz/Military/MVKII-4.jpg

http://007.007.sweb.cz/Military/MVKII-5.jpg

http://007.007.sweb.cz/Military/MVKII-6.jpg

http://007.007.sweb.cz/Military/MVKII-7.jpg

Thanks, Xt.

[kapten_windu]

Hi Xtender, may i know where you get this medal?

but as i see in the pictures, it's an original..

cmmiw..

kapten_windu

[Josef Rietveld]

Hello Gentlemans,

is this MVK II class - 2nd award with WD/Sw really original or later copy?

Marko catalogue - MVK with WD/Sw - 2nd award....only 5x awarded. Is it true?

I have seen picture of one original, but the green enamels in 2nd award are another design.

http://007.007.sweb.cz/Military/MVKII-1.jpg

http://007.007.sweb.cz/Military/MVKII-2.jpg

http://007.007.sweb.cz/Military/MVKII-3.jpg

http://007.007.sweb.cz/Military/MVKII-4.jpg

http://007.007.sweb.cz/Military/MVKII-5.jpg

http://007.007.sweb.cz/Military/MVKII-6.jpg

http://007.007.sweb.cz/Military/MVKII-7.jpg

Thanks, Xt.

A very strange cross:

- Frontside enamel and Verdienst appear normal.

- wardecoration (enamel) and laurelleaf-design are different to official issued pieces

- sworddesign = different

- complete backside = different

- the design of the laurelleaf indicating the second award is different aswell

- NO Hallmarks

BTW six of them were awarded My link

Have a look at enzos superbe collection (later in the thread)

I will ask a fellow collector. By now i don't know whre to put this special MVK you presented.

josef

Edited October 5, 2010 by Josef Rietveld

[Xtender]

kapten_windu - it is not my piece, but I can get him....but as says Josef, the piece looks not as awarded original.

[Josef Rietveld]

This is what i have been told.

The cross is a Rothe-copy. When you look at the crossarms-enamel you see the flingierung (pattern on the crosses surface)

is missing. see picture of an original

There are a lot of things missing: Producermark J(osef) S(ouval), dianahead (silver) and the R. Marschall for the crosses designer.

Seven years ago such a cross was on the market with a backside-engraving for Prinz Eitel Friedrich.

The good message: Even the Rothe-Copies are collected nowadays - so this MVK2 has some value.

regards

josef

[Tim B]

Wow, this is interesting! It's a beautiful piece of workmanship and I have noticed other Austrian copies that have a lot of effort put into them.

For a collector that is not that knowledgeable in Austrian awards, and what to look for on originals, these Rothe copies could be really problematic. I remember looking at someone's 50 year service cross and asking questions here about it. Turned out that was a Rothe copy as well and I could see differences right away, once someone told me what to look for.

Might it be worthwhile to start a thread or "pin" a thread just on copies, including these Rothe examples?

Tim

Edited October 5, 2010 by Tim B

[Yankee]

Tim B's remark on a thread for copies is a wonderful idea, I suspect there are enough good quality fakes to flood any capital city. Just saw a dangerous copy of an early type St.Stephen Knight in gold being auctioned by Rauch. The only thing I found wrong was the reverse center wreath being not hand painted. Perhaps in the hand there would be other issues that would cause concern. One needs a very strong stomach and an excellent library collecting rare A-H awards.

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

I'm just back from Germany (Gunzenhausen).

I agree with Yankee's remark on fakes. At the german show, I've seen that a very good copy (in gold) of the Leopold order (early type) is beginning to appear. From what I've been told it's made in Hungary. Very good workmanship and made of gold and fine enamels. Of course, who's seen an original (also in good pictures), couldn't be deceived, but a "beginner" could spend much money for something that has nothing much than the gold value.

Regretfully, I couldn't take photos of it.

Best wishes,

E.L.