heavy Artillery - British or German?

[Naxos]

From the photo album of Leutnant Wilhelm Hurst, Infanterie-Regiment Nr.170

the caption reads: "Im Holnon Wald wohnt schwere englische Batterie, März 1918" - In Holnon forest dwells a heavy English Battery, March 1918

Is it a captured British Artillery Battery?

Edited January 10, 2011 by Naxos

[Naxos]

Detail:

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[Naxos]

... more:

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[KIR]

Hi Hardy,

I think I found an other picture from the same British Howitzer battery!?

Best regards,

Jens

[Naxos]

Yes, it appears to be the same battery!

Any details with the picture?

.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Naxos

[KIR]

... Any details with the picture?

... sorry - nothing!

[IrishGunner]

Jens is absolutely correct - the guns are British 9.2 Heavy Howitzers - siege guns of the Royal Garrison Artillery (British equiv of the Fussartillerie). And certainly this a captured battery. Although, as we all know, there was no hesitation to use captured equipment if possible.

These guns are definitely "out of battery" - meaning the tube is out of position for firing. Since these guns had to be disassembled into three pieces for transport, it's possible the British gunners "disassembled" the guns partially so they could not be fired, but not completely damaged (such as blasting a hole in the gun tube) just in case they were able to re-capture the guns from the Germans.

This website of the RGA 154 Siege Battery has additional pictures of the guns- including some pictures captioned as "captured by Germans" as well as the guns disassembled - it's hard to tell if the captured photos are the same guns as in your photos. But interestingly, the description in some of the narratives on 154th's website of the battery position seem quite familiar to your picture.

https://sites.google.com/site/154siegebattery/9-2-inch-heavy-guns

Of course, I didn't read anything about the 154th losing its guns - tantamount to losing the colours! But there is a description of the 154th having to make a hasty displacement from their position - disassembling the guns - in the face of a German offensive. So, this lends credibility to the likelihood of a British siege battery being captured relatively intact.

Great photos!

Edited January 11, 2011 by IrishGunner

[Naxos]

IrishGunner,

I knew this would be right up your alley, thank you for the reply.

I think the tubes are still in place, only retracted. Have a look at this close-up from Jens' picture – It appears the crew left in mid loading. - Great link btw.

Edited January 11, 2011 by Naxos

[Les]

Translated news dispatch; see paragraph 5.

"Freiburger Tagblatt, No. 83, March 24, 1918:

WTB [Wolff Telegraph Service]. General Headquarters, March 23. Under the leadership of His Majesty the Kaiser and King, the offensive against the English front near Arras-Cambrai and St. Quentin has been going on for two days now. Good progress was also made yesterday.

Divisions of the army of Crown Prince Rupprecht stormed the heights to the north and northwest of Croisilles. Between Fontaine le Croisilles and Moendre, they forced their way into the second enemy line and took the nearby towns of Boulx-Braucourt and Morchies. A strong English counterattack was unsuccessful.

Our army broke through the first two enemy lines between Connelieux and the Omignon stream. The heights to the west of Gonzeancourt, Hendicourt and Viller-Faucon, were taken. In the valley of the Cologne stream, Roisel and Marquaixe were stormed. The battle for the heights around Epchy was especially fierce. Surrounded from the north and the south, the enemy had to surrender these positions to our troops. Between Epchy and Roisel, the English attempted to stop the advance of our victorious troops with strong counterattacks. Everywhere, the English were thrown back with very heavy losses. The heights to the north of Vermand were stormed. We are standing before the third enemy line.

These successes led the enemy to retreat from his positions on the bend southwest of Cambrai. We followed him toward Demicourt, Flesquiere, and Ribecourt.

Between the Omignon stream and the Somme, the army of the German crown prince, after taking the enemy’s first positions, fought its way through the Holnon forest and over the heights of Favy and Rouzy and penetrated the enemy’s third lines.

To the south of the Somme, divisions broke through the enemy lines and, pushing forward without reserve, threw the enemy back behind the Crozat canal to the west. Rifle battalions forced them to cross over the Oise to the west of La Fere. Working with the divisions that followed, they stormed the heights crowned by the military fortifications of La Fere to the northwest of the city. "

Edited January 11, 2011 by Les

[Les]

Here's a little more by way of news dispatches, and mentions the capture of English artillery units and notes how many guns were lost...

"Freiburger Tagblatt, No. 85, March 26, 1918:

WTB [Wolff Telegraph Service], General Headquarters, March 26. In the continuation of the “Big Battle” in France our troops have achieved new successes. English divisions and French troops brought up from Flanders and Italy attacked desperately. They were beaten back!

[ . . . ]

Since the beginning of the battle, 93 enemy planes and 6 air balloons have been shot down. Captain Freiherr von Richthofen achieved his 67th and 68th victory in the air, Lieutenant Bongartz his 22nd, First Lieutenant Loerzer his 24th, Vice Seargent Baeumer his 23rd, Lieutenant Kroll his 22rd, and Lieutenant Thuy his 20th.

The number of captured artillery pieces has grown to 963. More than 100 tanks lie in captured positions."

[IrishGunner]

Hardy, agreed; the gun tube is still present, but is in a position we gunners call "out-of-battery". Out-of-battery means the cannon tube is not forward in its proper firing position. This usually occurs when there is a malfunction of the recoil mechanism and the tube stays to the rear rather than recoiling forward into a position to be fired again. If you try firing a gun out-of-battery, it will cause significant damage. You can also take a cannon tube out-of-battery deliberately to perform maintenance on the recoil system.

Since the 9.2 Heavy Howitzer was so large, it had to be transported in separate loads; the cannon tube being one separate and distinct load from the carriage. Therefore, it was normal (and probably relatively easy) to take the cannon tube out-of-battery for disassembly and transport. There was some type of retaining mechanism that allowed the cannon tube to be disassembled, but also kept the gun in-battery for firing. I'm guessing that the British gunners removed this retaining mechanism, allowing the guns to come out-of-battery - and therefore, be not able to fire - before they abandoned the position.

I don't have any images of the 9.2 Heavy Howitzer in my own collection, but here is one from the web showing the cannon tube in-battery and ready to fire. In this picture you see there is a distinct connection between the breech block and the recoil tube on top of the cannon tube sleeve. This connection is missing on your photo. The retaining mechanism (looks like a large nut on on the rear end of the recoil tube) connects the end of the recoil tube to the breech block. The guns in your photo are not connected in this way; the nut appears to be missing and therefore, the guns are out-of-battery and not able to fire, even though the cannon tubes are intact.

Also, the gun was loaded while the tube was forward in-battery; not to the rear as shown in your pictures. There was a little winch to raise the round to the breech.

Edited January 11, 2011 by IrishGunner

[IrishGunner]

Les; great news dispatches to go with the photos! Fantastic context.

[Naxos]

Rick, thanks for the explanation - makes perfect sense.

Great addition Les.

:cheers:

Edited January 11, 2011 by Naxos