Soviet Are ALL The Published References Wrong?

[Guest Rick Research]

In every published Russian reference book I have seen, the badge of this type is stated as having been created by decree of 16 September 1985:

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And yet... Lieutenant Colonel of "Interior Services" (= PRISONS) of Kharkov Province Ivan Timofeevich Pasmor got his by decree #697 of 8 December 1980.

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooookay then. What's five years, here or there?

The other documentation:

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[Guest Rick Research]

With the paperwork came some unsupported medals and badges, so don't know what actually DID belong to him, but the paperwork is all consistent:

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Issued 14 February 1966 by General I. Pokis, chief of Prisons of Kharkov Province. No rank shown for Pasmor, but an officer's "A" serial numbered document on the back cover.

His 1967 Militia Jubilee Medal issued on 16 April 1968 by the same authority, here shows Pasmor as a Major of Interior Services (Prisons):

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[Guest Rick Research]

I am not sure whether his 1968 Armed Forces Jubilee (issued 20 February 1969 by the same very busy Provincial Prisons Chief) indicates Prisons-Major Pasmor was a WW2 veteran, or whether prison guards qualified as "armed services." (?)

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Thus endeth the paperwork, but not the discrepancy in the "Excellent" badge's actual period of award. Has anybody else got any award paper for that type badge?

Both the typically overly complicated Soviet construction Staybrite 2 piece aluminum and plast-enamel "M1970" and too heavy 3 piece "M1985" (/1980!!!) came with the paperwork and a middle row medal bar:

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[Danny]

I've checked 2 references. One is Kutsenko's Law Enforcement badge book, but it doesn't state the year. It is image 1.3.21

The other is History and awards of the Russian MVD 1802-2002 and it clearly states 1985. Image 1.2.1.32

So are you certain that the document is authentic? Is it possible that it had been purchased blank and was filled in to add to the value of the group? Don't want to offend anyone but the reference book is pretty clear, even for my extremely limited Russian....

[Guest Rick Research]

Kutsenko gives the date in the text--page 27. Hence my dilemma on receiving this group today.

One wonders (that would be me, anyway) whether one reference source is simply repeating another, as so often happens with Third Reich "reference" books--thereby perpetuating errors for decades. Or as another example of The Book Is Wrong, L. Tokar's Soviet Police 1918-1991 Uniform book which reverses main color and piping for the 1947-58 enlisted ranks' uniform insignia-- making correct blue with red piping into incorrect illustrations and text red with blue piping. I am also reminded of the old and yet still WRONG contradictory published reports that KGB long service medals lost/only had their Roman numerals between 1960-68 when it has since neen documented from KGB groups IN that period that they had the Roman numerals from 1958 to the Breakup, and by groups of the plain front/"KGB" no-service-mentioned reverses actually being FIRE DEPARTMENT as Igor Moiseyev had said all along based on years of handling actual groups.

There was certainly no financial inducement to fakery here, and I think we can agree from the other paperwork that this yawner of a group is entirely consistent with original documents. That's why I posted the other documents.

Like Saint Thomas, I always prefer the evidence of my own eyes to the firm and yet unillustrated statements of books.

HERE we SEE a 1980 dated "1985" Type.

Has anybody else got another one for comparison? I have always thought it QUITE odd that the so-called "1970" type (and again, never having seen any award paper for THAT, either...) should have PRECEDED the so-called "M1985," when the materials are a reversal of the decline in quality found in other Soviet badges. I wonder (I do) whether somebody has REVERSED these two types of badges, and the "1970" is really "1985," and the "1985" is really

1970.

And thus no problem with a 1980 bestowal.

There SHOULD be many, many many of these badges out there with award documents. DOCUMENTED examples resolved the KGB long service medals "issue." I hope that DOCUMENTED police badges will resolve the dating "issue" which arises here as well.

[Guest Rick Research]

Here is a 1990 version, Ukrainian MVD but can't read the stamp for specific branch-- slightly different form

http://www.motka.com/cgi-bin/motka/motka.c...a20d39_43cbd62a

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