Guest IMHF Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 This is a close up view of the Iraqi Manufactured Version Now look at the Image I took of my First Class Breast Badge that was manufactured by Bertrand. Thank you for viewing Lorenzo
drclaw Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Hey Lorenzo and Markus, What a fantastic thread and I'm enjoying seeing all the gorgeous eye candy. That prototype Two Rivers you have Lorenzo is absolutely stunning. A true one of a kind!!! I'm now on the look out for a Two Rivers myself, but unfortunately don't like my chances at picking one up at a 'reasonable' price anymore.
Guest IMHF Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Hey Lorenzo and Markus, What a fantastic thread and I'm enjoying seeing all the gorgeous eye candy. That prototype Two Rivers you have Lorenzo is absolutely stunning. A true one of a kind!!! I'm now on the look out for a Two Rivers myself, but unfortunately don't like my chances at picking one up at a 'reasonable' price anymore. drclaw Thank you again for your kind words; I hope you find the piece you are looking for. If I were you I would try to start off with one of the lower Classes of the Order 3rd -5th these you can find them for 350.-400 a piece. I bought one from JK Militaria for 345.00 last year. Thank you again for your comments and look forward to seeing more replies to this thread. Lorenzo
drclaw Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Thanks for the tip, Lorenzo. I'll keep a look out for a Two Rivers. I've seen them occasionally pop up but they usually get snapped up quick. Really enjoyed reading your personal page too and seeing your photos of Iraq. Keep well, and keep safe. Gavin
922F Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Hello Lorenzo, Great images of the Iraqi-origin Rafidain pieces!! Are the components struck or cast? The enamel work looks to be 'hot' rather than 'cold' laid and of about equal quality to Bertrand's. Would it be possible to see the reverses? What about the case? Is there an emblem on the lid or a maker's mark in the interior? Any thoughts on whether the Iraqi supplier contracted out the actual manufacture? For a while in Sudan, for example, the government insisted that a 'national firm' supply decorations. A clever Sudanese got the contract but had insignia made in the Far East. Sincere thanks for sharing this information and these terrific images!!
Guest IMHF Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 922f Thank you so very much for your reply it is always great to get members participation in posting to a thread. Back to the Iraqi Manufactured Order it is a 2 piece constructed front and reverse then welded together front and back. Not like the Bertrand Issue which is solid silver then enameled. The Iraqi Version looks hand painted with very cheap quality paint. If you look at some of the other medals from the 1991 Gulf war like the service medal for the Mother of all Battles the paint quality is that of the same to give you an idea. I have been seeing more and more of these type quality Military Orders in the Bazaars. If you are a collector of this Order it is always good to have one in your collection. I hope this gives you an answer that you are looking for look forward to your future replies. Thank you Lorenzo
922F Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) 922f Thank you so very much for your reply it is always great to get members participation in posting to a thread. Back to the Iraqi Manufactured Order it is a 2 piece constructed front and reverse then welded together front and back. Not like the Bertrand Issue which is solid silver then enameled. The Iraqi Version looks hand painted with very cheap quality paint. If you look at some of the other medals from the 1991 Gulf war like the service medal for the Mother of all Battles the paint quality is that of the same to give you an idea. I have been seeing more and more of these type quality Military Orders in the Bazaars. If you are a collector of this Order it is always good to have one in your collection. I hope this gives you an answer that you are looking for look forward to your future replies. Thank you Lorenzo Lorenzo, Thanks for the welcome information. Do you think that Iraqi-made pieces are still being manufactured, maybe for collectors? Some reports claim that the current government is awarding this order using Saddam type insignia. Any thoughts on that? Edited April 15, 2011 by 922F
Guest IMHF Posted April 15, 2011 Posted April 15, 2011 922f I was told that there was a crap load of Iraqi Orders and medals from Storage warehouses that were never used. Many of the warehouses were looted by the Iraqis and many of the Orders and medals were brought to Antique shops and street vendors. I know one of the Big wigs who has a very large stash of rare goodies, he is the number one supplier in Baghdad, Iraq. I will not mention his name, but if you ever when to one out of the five shops he runs you will know what I mean. One of his shops was being run out of FOB Black Hawk in the Green Zone. He had tons of rare items in fact I know that William Endley has to know him with all the beauties he has in his collection. I do not believe that the Order of the Two Rivers is being awarded today by the Democratic Government of Iraq. The Nessier Eagle is a slogan of the Ba’ath Party and is no longer being used. I am sure in the future there will be a new design of the Iraqi Order of the Two Rivers which will have another Insignia in the center piece of the medallion. Note: There were 2 large warehouses in Taji, Iraq that were bombed and burnt to the ground. These warehouse stored tons of Iraqi Orders and Medals; this is why you will see many Iraqi medals damaged and being sold on Ebay. I had bought a large box of medals that came from the warehouse that had 5 3rd to 5th Class burnt Order of the Two Rivers in there. Thank you Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 If you ever want to part with the Civil Second Class I can put up a Grand for it. Thank you Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 I have drooled over the Iraq Order of El Rafidain for quite awhile, admiring the great design of this order. Searching for some reasonable priced medals of this order for over one year, my patience finally paid with these fine examples! The first one you have here by looking at it with the Crown is a 5th Class Bronzed Military Issue, can you post an image of the front of the case so we can read it. Thank you Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 Order of El Rafidain Commanders Badge in Garrard case. This one here is a Wisam al Rafidain Order of the Two Rivers Civil Second Class Neck Order very nice; does it have all the red filling in the Arms? Love to see an Image of the front cover Thank you very much Lorenzo
Markus Posted April 19, 2011 Author Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) Hi Lorenzo, Here are the front covers of cases. On left Commander, on right Knight case. All the enamels on both these medals 100% intact. Some of the gold plating seems to have worn off or oxidized which seems pretty common for these Garrard made medals. Markus Edited April 19, 2011 by Markus
Markus Posted April 19, 2011 Author Posted April 19, 2011 This is a close-up of the embossing on the case.
Guest IMHF Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 Markus Very beautiful postings the cases look beautiful and well preserved. you did an outstanding job on picking these pieces up. Thank you so very much for posting Lorenzo
drclaw Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 Hi Markus and Lorenzo, After turning deep green with envy at your collections, I can finally add some pics of my Kingdom El Rafidain. A Civil Division, 5th Class Knight(?) This just arrived from Jorg at Sammler-Cabinett. There's a slight fading of the gold inscription on the medal, which Markus mentioned earlier as fairly common with Garrard orders. Other than that, I have to agree about the exceptional craftsmanship of these beauties. Gavin
Guest IMHF Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 That is very nice man, thank you for sharing your new beautiful Iraqi Kingdom al Rafidain. -The case of issue is in great shape and I love that the ribbon has some wear on it Nice Find Lorenzo
Markus Posted May 6, 2011 Author Posted May 6, 2011 Very nice Gavin! The workmanship is of the highest quality by the Queens jeweler Garrard & Co. Your medal appears to be in tip top shape. It is one of my favorite order medals and seems to be getting harder to find. Great Pick Up! Markus
drclaw Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 Cheers gents, and I forgot to mention it was Markus who spotted this one for me! :beer:
Guest IMHF Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 Cheers gents, and I forgot to mention it was Markus who spotted this one for me! Markus Spot some out for me that was a very beautiful piece you found for Gavin Thank you Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 I want to thank two members for helping me find this Order of the Two Rivers for my collection. Thank you!! -This is a Kingdom Wisam al Rafidain Order of the Two Rivers 2nd Class Neck Order for the Kingdom era of Iraq. This piece was manufactured by Garrard Jewelry co, but as you can see the Neck ribbon is that of a different era. The neck ribbon also is that of the military issue of the order and of the Republic era. I think that the Neck Ribbon was recently made as a replacement, some suppliers and dealers out there do have rolls of this sort of ribbon for this Order. The ribbon appears to have come from a roll of the Republic Military issue. You can see that the ties are improper; out of all the neck orders I have the ties should be the same pattern as the ribbon itself but much thinner. -So I do believe that the Ribbon was recently added to the Order, I am just happy to say it is a piece in my private collection. Thank you Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2011/post-3626-0-43917400-1306795121.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2011/post-3626-0-81982600-1306795136.jpg http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2011/post-3626-0-05785300-1306795156.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2011/post-3626-0-57445500-1306795174.jpg Here are some more image that were provided for me by the seller. Thank you very much for viewing. Lorenzo
Guest IMHF Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 I want to thank two members for helping me find this Order of the Two Rivers for my collection. Thank you!! -This is a Kingdom Wisam al Rafidain Order of the Two Rivers 2nd Class Neck Order for the Kingdom era of Iraq. This piece was manufactured by Garrard Jewelry co, but as you can see the Neck ribbon is that of a different era. The neck ribbon also is that of the military issue of the order and of the Republic era. I think that the Neck Ribbon was recently made as a replacement, some suppliers and dealers out there do have rolls of this sort of ribbon for this Order. The ribbon appears to have come from a roll of the Republic Military issue. You can see that the ties are improper; out of all the neck orders I have the ties should be the same pattern as the ribbon itself but much thinner. -So I do believe that the Ribbon was recently added to the Order, I am just happy to say it is a piece in my private collection. Thank you Lorenzo On another note the neck ribbon used during the kingdom El Rafidain Orders used brass clips to fasten the ribbon from end to end so it could be worn around the neck. Over all it still is a beautiful piece, thank you Markus and Gavin for helping me add it to my collection. Thank you all for viewing Lorenzo
drclaw Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Congratulations Lorenzo! It is a very beautiful piece. Thanks also for educating us novices about the difference between the Kingdom and Republican issue ribbon. I had no idea about that and something to keep a look out for in the future. :beer:
Markus Posted May 31, 2011 Author Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) Hey Lorenzo, Nice looking medal in perfect shape even though it has a replacement ribbon. Still one of my favorite orders! I tried to PM you with this Spamish dealer link but for some reason PM's won't take. This is a Spanish dealer that has some interesting Iraq military items. My link Markus Edited May 31, 2011 by Markus
Guest IMHF Posted June 5, 2011 Posted June 5, 2011 Hey Lorenzo, Nice looking medal in perfect shape even though it has a replacement ribbon. Still one of my favorite orders! I tried to PM you with this Spamish dealer link but for some reason PM's won't take. This is a Spanish dealer that has some interesting Iraq military items. My link Markus Markus Thank you for the link, yes I contacted the dealer his price is that as if it had the case. It is very beautiful; I bought my set of the Wisam al Rafidain Kingdom Order of the Two Rivers with original case of issue and sash with breast badge for 645GPB back in 2005-06. I am looking for a complete set for the Civil First Class Kingdom Order of the Two Rivers Najaf has a very beautiful set but the price is marked at $5,000.00. The price is way over priced since he bought the set for $1,500 from the 80 UBS Auction 2 years ago. Yes the Wisam al Rafidain Order is my Favorite Order as well I have now 26 pieces in my collection and working on adding 2 more if the deal goes right. Thank you and Gavin for your help in finding them. -I am also looking for a Nut al Rafidain Set Silver and Bronze. Lorenzo
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