Italy- Unusual Cross for military valour

[tjnier]

Here is an unusual variety of the Italian Cross of Military Valor. It appeared in an eBay auction that closed on 3-27-2011. What is different is that the King's monogram "VE" on the upper reverse arm has been overstamped with a large "X" and a small "A" (in the upper right corner). It came in a fitted maroon case with the Cravanzola hallmark printed on the inside of its lid.

The seller believed that this mark represented its award to a member of the elite 10th MAS. This was an Italian Navy group of commandos that manned human torpedoes against British warships, and performed other daring activities in WW2. It was also suggested that this overstamp indicated the abdication of the Italian King after the Italian surrender to the Allies in 1943.

Does any GMIC member have a correct explanation of this interesting overstamp??

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

Is the ribon blue with two white stripes or just plain blue?

[lilo]

Is the ribon blue with two white stripes or just plain blue?

It should be plain blue because the cross is an 'Al Valore Militare' and not the 'Al Merito di Guerra'. This ribbon was introduced in may 1943. The 'VE III' chypher was obliteraded with a X denoting a re-utilization of a royal period cross during the Repubblic.

[JimZ]

That is the Croce al Valore Militare which was awarded for acts of valour that was undeserving of the Medaglia al Valore Militare. The VEIII monogram represents Vittorio Emanuele III i.e. the Kingdom. The cross was actually instituted by him following WWI.

As of 1947, these crosses carried the RI monogram instead symbolising the republic.

Lilo is correct in saying that the medal would carry a blue ribbon rather than a striped blue and white ribbon seen on the more common Al merito di guerra.

What you have there is a pre 1947 Cross that was re-used (and probably issued after the abdication of the King (in 1946), and the VEIII monogram which symbolises the monarch, was cancelled prior to issue.

There are other versions of these crosses (although I am not sure whether these are only for the Croce al merito di guerra) where the VEIII was actually ground down and the RI stamped instead, clearly showing that the medals were in fact recycled.

I doubt that if that the mark actually represented any division and if issued pre 1947, it is highly unlikely that it would be stamped over the Kings Monogram!!!

Jim :cheers:

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

I agree too that the 'X' denotes the de-utilization of the royal cypher and the cross may come from the transitional period (1946-47). The plain blue ribbon is kind of proof too, although not very strong (it is not difficult to substitute one ribbon for another).

BTW, does anybody has information if the "merito di guerra" type cross was ever awarded with a sword on the ribbon? I have a cross inscribed "merito di guerra", however the ribbon (blue with white stripes) has a bronze Roman gladio, which as far as I know was used with the "al valore militare" type only. I suppose that the gladio could be pinned in later, just to add more splendour to the more common cross.

[JimZ]

As far as I know the merito di guerra was issued with a gladio when awarded for valour. This went all the way up to 1941 when the wording on the cross was changed from "merito di guerra" to "al valore militare"....still with the VE IIII cypher and still with the blue and white ribbon. In 1943, the gladio was removed and replaced with the blue ribbon.

So to summarise:

From institution of the medal up to 1941 - Blue and white ribbon - Cypher "VEIII" - "Al merito di guerra" - With gladio for valour;

From 1941 - 1943 - Blue and white ribbon - Cypher "VEIII" - with "Al merito di guerra" for merit and with "Al valore militare" + gladio for valour; - Ribbon bar same as medals

From 1943 -1947 - Blue and white ribbon - Cypher "VEIII" - with "Al merito di guerra" for merit; Blue ribbon with "Al valore militare" for valour; and

From 1947 Cypher "VEIII" replaced with "RI". (VEIII cypher initally struck off or stamped over with RI) - Ribbon bars were worn with a star to denote it as an "al valore militare" cross

Jim :cheers:

[JimZ]

I had come across some pics online that illustrate some of the above changes but cannot find them right now. I will try to look them up and post them tomorrow.

Regards,

Jim

[JimZ]

AH found them...

This is the merito di guerro with gladio issued as a valour award

[JimZ]

This would be the al valore militare 1941 - 43

[JimZ]

1943-1947 cross with blue ribbon

[JimZ]

And finally the Italian Republic version.....

[JimZ]

I agree too that the 'X' denotes the de-utilization of the royal cypher and the cross may come from the transitional period (1946-47). The plain blue ribbon is kind of proof too, although not very strong (it is not difficult to substitute one ribbon for another).

BTW, does anybody has information if the "merito di guerra" type cross was ever awarded with a sword on the ribbon? I have a cross inscribed "merito di guerra", however the ribbon (blue with white stripes) has a bronze Roman gladio, which as far as I know was used with the "al valore militare" type only. I suppose that the gladio could be pinned in later, just to add more splendour to the more common cross.

Unfortunately, it is very easy to substitute ribbons or pin a gladio on a common "merito di guerro" to change it into an "al valor militare" award.

What would add value to an award is the certificate that might sometimes accompany the award, although again, one can never know if its an authentic pair or if the cross was "put together".

Regards,

Jim :cheers:

[JimZ]

Here is an unusual variety of the Italian Cross of Military Valor. It appeared in an eBay auction that closed on 3-27-2011. What is different is that the King's monogram "VE" on the upper reverse arm has been overstamped with a large "X" and a small "A" (in the upper right corner). It came in a fitted maroon case with the Cravanzola hallmark printed on the inside of its lid.

The seller believed that this mark represented its award to a member of the elite 10th MAS. This was an Italian Navy group of commandos that manned human torpedoes against British warships, and performed other daring activities in WW2. It was also suggested that this overstamp indicated the abdication of the Italian King after the Italian surrender to the Allies in 1943.

Does any GMIC member have a correct explanation of this interesting overstamp??

Tjnier,

One question before I pack it in for the day - What colour is the ribbon (Lucasz already asked) and why do I have a strong feeling of deja vu!! - Was this acquired from an online auction site?

Regards,

Jim :cheers:

[lilo]

As far as I know the merito di guerra was issued with a gladio when awarded for valour. This went all the way up to 1941 when the wording on the cross was changed from "merito di guerra" to "al valore militare"....still with the VE IIII cypher and still with the blue and white ribbon. In 1943, the gladio was removed and replaced with the blue ribbon.

So to summarise:

From institution of the medal up to 1941 - Blue and white ribbon - Cypher "VEIII" - "Al merito di guerra" - With gladio for valour;

From 1941 - 1943 - Blue and white ribbon - Cypher "VEIII" - with "Al merito di guerra" for merit and with "Al valore militare" + gladio for valour; - Ribbon bar same as medals

From 1943 -1947 - Blue and white ribbon - Cypher "VEIII" - with "Al merito di guerra" for merit; Blue ribbon with "Al valore militare" for valour; and

From 1947 Cypher "VEIII" replaced with "RI". (VEIII cypher initally struck off or stamped over with RI) - Ribbon bars were worn with a star to denote it as an "al valore militare" cross

Jim

Well, all that Jim said is perfectly correct apart his last statement.

When the Cross 'al Valore Militare' was used with the 1st type ribbon (i.e. the Blue and white ribbon) this was represented in a ribbon bar with the same ribbon type with the addition of the 'gladio' on it (in the mean time the ribbons of the 'Medaglia Al Valore Militare' were represented with a plain blue ribbon with the addition of a Gold star for the type in gold, of a Silver star for that in silver and nothing for the Bronze type).

In 1943 the new ribbon (plain blue) was introduced for the Cross 'al Valore Militare' and in the same time, to avoid confusion, a bronze star was introduced to put on the ribbon for the 'Medaglia Al Valore Militare in bronze'.

This was made to differentiate the ribbon of the Cross 'al Valore Militare' (plain blue ribbon without device) from that of the 'Medaglia Al Valore Militare in bronze' (plain blue ribbon with a bronze star )

The use of the 'Coroncine' (crown) during the reign or of the 'stars' during the Repubblic, detote the numbers of the awards of the Cross Al Merito di Guerra.

The use of the 'Coroncine' or the 'Stars' in gold, in silver or in bronze (and their combination) on the ribbon, represent the effective number of awards of the Cross 'Al Merito di Guerra (only !) that a person received.

An example - if a person received, after may 1943, two 'Medaglia Al Valore Militare in bronze' and two Cross 'al Valore Militare' we will find on his ribbon bar : two plain blue ribbons + 2 bronze stars (one on each of the ribbons) to represent the two 'Medaglia Al Valore Militare in bronze' + two plain blue ribbons to represent the two Crosess 'al Valore Militare'.

As you can see in this ribbon bar, the number of awards is represented by the wear of as many ribbons as many decorations the person received.

Edited August 15, 2011 by lilo

[JimZ]

Hi Lilo,

Thanks for your clarification. You are right and I stand corrected :-) I also checked the wiki page with the Italian ribbon chart and what you say is actually quite clearly shown there: Ref: http://it.wikipedia....icenze_italiane

The development of this Cross is a tricky one to changed several times over the years.

I realised that I also failed to include the following picture which shows the croce al valore militare with "Croce al Valore Militare" rather than "Al Valore Militare". I understand this to be a less common variant of the 1941-1943 cross.

Lilo - do you have more info about this variant?

Regards,

Jim :cheers:

[lilo]

Hi Lilo,

Thanks for your clarification. You are right and I stand corrected :-) I also checked the wiki page with the Italian ribbon chart and what you say is actually quite clearly shown there: Ref: http://it.wikipedia....icenze_italiane

The development of this Cross is a tricky one to changed several times over the years.

I realised that I also failed to include the following picture which shows the croce al valore militare with "Croce al Valore Militare" rather than "Al Valore Militare". I understand this to be a less common variant of the 1941-1943 cross.

Lilo - do you have more info about this variant?

Regards,

Jim

Although in italian, this can be of some use :

http://www.robertomanno.it/showimage.php?id=UeA&img=UA41&num=3&seq=1&type=2 (click on single page to enlarge)

http://miles.forumcommunity.net/?t=33656542

http://miles.forumcommunity.net/?t=42427863

http://miles.forumcommunity.net/?t=29197500

http://forum.worldwar.it/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=5895&start=0

Regards

Lilo ;)

[JimZ]

Super Lilo. Yes, I had also downloaded the pics from that forum few months ago when looking up some info but I could not come across it again. Now I saved its URL!! Thanks:cheers:

Will go through the threads to read up on the "Croce". Thanks for the info.

Jim :cheers:

[lilo]

:D Hi Jim,

I recognized the pictures you posted and thought the informations on that forum could be of use to someone else. I'm happy that you could use them also !

Edited August 15, 2011 by lilo

[tjnier]

I apolgize for my delay in reply to the question of the actual ribbon on the AVM cross with the "Xa" stamped over the VE III monogram. The ebay listing in March 2011 showed that it had a plain blue ribbon. I did not win this eBay item. Many thanks to the Club members who provided so much information about this unusual AVM Cross.

[JimZ]

Hi tjinier,

Not a problem. You actually got us discussing these crosses

We're all here to help when we can.

Regards,

Jim :cheers:

Edited September 24, 2011 by JimZ

[tjnier]

While there is so much interest in the War Merit Cross varieties, I have another question for the Club members. I have examples of the WMC each with one of several hallmarks on the lower reverse arm, placed near the lower right corner. These include the crown over Z mark of the Royal Mint, which specimen was awarded to a British Artillery Major in WW1. The other single letter hallmarks known to me include "M", "R". "F" struck in relief, and "B" incused into the Cross.

Does anyone have a clue as to the meaning of these letter hallmarks?? Are there more letter hallmarks known to be or observed on the WMC?? One theory bandied about is that they represent manufacture in Rome, Milan, Firenze, and Bologna. However, my Italian contacts say they have never heard of this theory. They suspect the letters correspond to local firms making the Crosses, not to the cities of manufacture.

Would be glad to receive any new information on this subject from the Club members. Many thanks, Tom

[JimZ]

I am not familiar with this. I have tried to run a search on Italian forums but I realised that I do not know the proper word for "hallmark" in Italian. Pehaps Lilo can lend a hand here and teach us a new word as well as perhaps provide us with further information....

Jim :cheers:

[lilo]

Hi,

A good word to translate the word ‘hallmark’ in Italian is ‘marchio’ or ‘punzone’.

The various letter hallmarks (SJ, FML, FZ, M, A, B, F, J, H, P, R, Z …), for what is currently known to me, means the various fabricants (a part the official ‘ZECCA’ [i.e. Mint]) that produced the Cross.

See :

http://www.blitzkriegmilitaria-forum.com/showthread.php?t=5074

http://miles.forumcommunity.net/?t=19986454

http://miles.forumcommunity.net/?t=35710489

Best Regards

Lilo