BWM to Canadian, French or Belgian sailors.

[Veteran]

Hello all

I have a BWM named to CHARLES RENAUD, a very french sounding name. Possibly Canadian, French or Belgian ( or Channel Islands ?).

This type of naming is usually found on medals to merchant sailors.

The trouble seems to be with finding the reference with the National Archives. Would anyone have a clue.

Every bit of information will be gratefully received.

[Tony]

I had no luck either.

8 on ancestry and 12 on the NA site, the majority serving in the British army. I was hoping to find he was a spy, let's hope someone else can find his MIC.

Tony

[paddywhack]

is there a service number at all?

[Veteran]

.,

Hello paddywhack

The naming is just as mentioned. No other indication.

Medals to Belgian & French agents of Military Intelligence NEVER have the full christian name. Only an initial. Therefore this medal is clearly not to one of these agents, four medals to which I have or have had.

For some reason, the merchant sailors seem to have been listed elsewhere. Seems you have run into the same trouble I have.

Thank you for your message.

Veteran

[Michael Johnson]

He is a Merchant Seaman: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=8404116&queryType=1&resultcount=1

But he was born in Liverpool in 1898.

Ancestry has a number of entries for him in the New York Passenger lists. He's listed as an A.B. (Able-bodied Seaman). Although he was active throughout the Second World War he doesn't appear to have applied for his medals, at least from the U.K.

SO I would say he is missing only his Mercantile Marine Medal.

[Veteran]

He is a Merchant Seaman: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=8404116&queryType=1&resultcount=1

But he was born in Liverpool in 1898.

Ancestry has a number of entries for him in the New York Passenger lists. He's listed as an A.B. (Able-bodied Seaman). Although he was active throughout the Second World War he doesn't appear to have applied for his medals, at least from the U.K.

SO I would say he is missing only his Mercantile Marine Medal.

Thank you so much Michael. I am most grateful.

So he was born in Britain (but was he a Briton ?) and he served a a young lad as a Merchant Seaman.

I cannot help wondering where his parents came from.

This was a fast and most satisfactory answer. Wonderful. Hope to be able to reciprocate some day.

Very best regards

Paul

[tjnier]

The topic of BWM awards to European civilians was discussed by Anthony Margrave in his quarterly journal on French medals titled "Honneur et Patrie, October 1997, Vol. 6, #3, pages 24-26 (this journal is now discontinued). He quoted a reference that 4127 British War Medals were awarded to British, Belgian & French civilians who worked as agents for the BEF in France during the war. These names were in a record box titled "British War and Victory medals. Agents, British, Belgian, French" which was housed at the Public Records Office, Kew, as Record Group 329/2356. The French recipients were in a manuscript dated 7 August 1919, which consisted of 17 typed pages. It listed the names and addresses of the French civilians, men & women entitled to the BWM. There was a note in the record box stating that 269 BWMs for French citizens were to be named, and 9 more were to be left blank.

Alec Purves in his book "Medals, Decorations & Orders of the Great War 1914-1918" stated that 133 silver and 573 bronze BWMs were awarded to European civilians who aided the BEF in France. None of these medals were named as issued, according to Purves. An article by Marcel Nuikttens on the BWM awards to Belgian citizens was published in the Winter 1991 issue of Journal OMRS, Vol. 30, #4, pages 181-283.

[Veteran]

The topic of BWM awards to European civilians was discussed by Anthony Margrave in his quarterly journal on French medals titled "Honneur et Patrie, October 1997, Vol. 6, #3, pages 24-26 (this journal is now discontinued). He quoted a reference that 4127 British War Medals were awarded to British, Belgian & French civilians who worked as agents for the BEF in France during the war. These names were in a record box titled "British War and Victory medals. Agents, British, Belgian, French" which was housed at the Public Records Office, Kew, as Record Group 329/2356. The French recipients were in a manuscript dated 7 August 1919, which consisted of 17 typed pages. It listed the names and addresses of the French civilians, men & women entitled to the BWM. There was a note in the record box stating that 269 BWMs for French citizens were to be named, and 9 more were to be left blank.

Alec Purves in his book "Medals, Decorations & Orders of the Great War 1914-1918" stated that 133 silver and 573 bronze BWMs were awarded to European civilians who aided the BEF in France. None of these medals were named as issued, according to Purves. An article by Marcel Nuikttens on the BWM awards to Belgian citizens was published in the Winter 1991 issue of Journal OMRS, Vol. 30, #4, pages 181-283.

Thank you fot this information about the "British, Belgian and French Agents" who were civilians and received a BWM as a reward for their help to British Military Intelligence. You are right they have been clearly listed and the register is at Kew.

Contrary to what Alec Purves thought, their medals are all properly named (I have had two to Belgians and still have two to French ladies) with First name Initial and Family name : i.e.: L. VERFAILLES (French) or J.T. DE NEVE (Belgian).

A few years ago, a post was made here about a Frenchman who had been shot by the Germans for the same type of services and who received a posthumous BWM, I believe.

The BWM I was inquiring about is different : the First name (MICHEL) is fully engraved, which to my knowledge excludes the Agents.

Thank you for your kind help.