INFO H.M.S. WARSPITE SAILOR CAP

[SICHERHEITSDIENTS]

i would thank any help to know age about this royal navy sailor cap,dark blue wool made,H.M.S WARSPITE cap tally,maker label:JAMES FORSYTH LTD(st. Albans)

somebody told me there were 9 ships called HMS WARSPITE in the royal navy history and i know during ww2 the cap tally used for all the ships was only H.M.S. for securirty reasons but i dont know nothing more about my new collection sailor cap age....

thanks in advance

[Mervyn Mitton]

"WARSPITE" - a famous name for the British Navy , and as you say there were 9 of them in all. The most recent H.M.S.Warspite - and almost certainly the one your cap came from - was launched in 1913. After fitting out She was commissioned in 1915 and saw distinguished service in WW1 - including the Battle of Jutland.

She was a Queen Elizabeth class battleship and weighed in excess of 33,000 tons. The crew varied but was about 1100 on a war footing. Her armament was the new 15 inch gun (42 cm) and she carried 8 in 4 turrets.

She had an extensive re-fit in 1934. Her service in WW2 was exceptional and she served all over the World - she was badly damaged in one action and again, re-fitted in New York. WARSPITE was de-commissioned in 1945 - and eventually scrapped in 1947.

[SICHERHEITSDIENTS]

"WARSPITE" - a famous name for the British Navy , and as you say there were 9 of them in all. The most recent H.M.S.Warspite - and almost certainly the one your cap came from - was launched in 1913. After fitting out She was commissioned in 1915 and saw distinguished service in WW1 - including the Battle of Jutland.

She was a Queen Elizabeth class battleship and weighed in excess of 33,000 tons. The crew varied but was about 1100 on a war footing. Her armament was the new 15 inch gun (42 cm) and she carried 8 in 4 turrets.

She had an extensive re-fit in 1934. Her service in WW2 was exceptional and she served all over the World - she was badly damaged in one action and again, re-fitted in New York. WARSPITE was de-commissioned in 1945 - and eventually scrapped in 1947.

in ww2 years for secrrity reasons cap tally in all royal navy ships was only H.M.S. and then from what period would be my hat early ww2 or years inmediatelly post war until 1947 shop was scrapped?

Edited May 16, 2011 by SICHERHEITSDIENTS

[Mervyn Mitton]

I would have said for the inter war years - 1920-39. The blue cap was for Home Service and cold weather. White for the tropics.

[SICHERHEITSDIENTS]

I would have said for the inter war years - 1920-39. The blue cap was for Home Service and cold weather. White for the tropics.

a person told me than pre war and ww2 royal navy cap tallies had a full stop behind the name of the ship,an example would be H.M.S. WARSPITE.

could you confirm this point or he is wrong?

thanks in advance

Edited May 17, 2011 by SICHERHEITSDIENTS

[Mervyn Mitton]

The chronology would seem to be that a dot was after the name until the outbreak of WW2. When H.M.S. alone was discontinued when War ended, for some reason the dot was not re-instated.

[SICHERHEITSDIENTS]

The chronology would seem to be that a dot was after the name until the outbreak of WW2. When H.M.S. alone was discontinued when War ended, for some reason the dot was not re-instated.

sorry,what do you mean when you said?(The chronology would seem to be that a dot was after the name until the outbreak of WW2. When H.M.S. alone was discontinued when War ended, for some reason the dot was not re-instated)

my question:full stop behind ship name is the only method possible found in pre-war cap tallies or as you stated my hat is pre-war and ok for period without full stop behind the ship name?

by the way i handle my H.M.S. WARSPITE cap tally is faded and made in silk and letters are yellow thread,i dont consider this cap tally was for HMS WARSPITE submarine(1965/91)as another person told me.

if we suppose was used pre-war cap tallies full stop behind ship name for sure(and no possible without it for period)it would be possible beetween 1945 until 1947 when H.M.S. WARSPITE was scrapped for this ship the cap tally without full stop behind name ship as mine or what is your final determination with my hat and tally?

thanks in advance

Edited May 18, 2011 by SICHERHEITSDIENTS

[SICHERHEITSDIENTS]

any explanation about why my cap has a cap tally without full stop like was official use in pre-war years?

the most people told me cap ww2 one but what happens with the cap tally in black faded cotton and legend made yellow thread as vintage tallies but no full stop on it,nobody can determinate nothing?

the next ship warspite was a submarine and then all of them were called with tally HM SUBMARINES

may be the only possibility is than my cap tally is HMS WARSPITE was used the last few years later ww2 when ship was scrapped... :anmatcat:

[Odulf]

Can you take off the tally and show us the reverse, that may provide information about the age?

The bow is very untidy, a disgrace for any sailor.

The tally is twisted round the hat, the airing holes should be over the ears (thus due starboard and portside of the skull) and the ship's name positioned exactly at the front.

It is unlikely that the Navy reintroduced the tally after the war, for the ship was placed on the reserve list early 1945, to be decommissioned and scrapped.

Enclosed a photo of a nicely tied bow in wear.

[Odulf]

The so called "tiddly bow" was allowed only on the walking-out dress, on duty the ends of the tally were sewn together.

See the enclosed photo

[SICHERHEITSDIENTS]

here i go with the tally pics,i untied the tally,i hope this helps....

[Odulf]

When I see it right, the letters are in yellow rayon, not in gold wire.

This could indicate late 1930s, but this style was used until about the 1970s.

After the war tallies with old ship's names were also produced for souvenirs.

The type of sailor's hat is 1940s (see enclosed photo of a hat from the early 1940s)

[SICHERHEITSDIENTS]

When I see it right, the letters are in yellow rayon, not in gold wire.

This could indicate late 1930s, but this style was used until about the 1970s.

After the war tallies with old ship's names were also produced for souvenirs.

The type of sailor's hat is 1940s (see enclosed photo of a hat from the early 1940s)

i wonder 2 questions:if the tally was from 30,s,where is the full-stop at the end of word WARSPITE like was current those years?

- what do you mean when you said:this style was used until about 1970,s,you mean about yellow rayon made?

finally do you think tally is a souvenir post war one or 1930,s and hat for sure is 40,s?

Edited June 13, 2012 by SICHERHEITSDIENTS

[Odulf]

What I was relating to, is that in the late 1930s and early 1940s cotton/rayon replaced in some cases the goldwire, but you can find more information on this forum:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/50851-hms-tallies-how-to-tell-the-difference/page__st__20

To my opinoon the hat is 1940s, but I have doubts about the age of the tally.

[SICHERHEITSDIENTS]

What I was relating to, is that in the late 1930s and early 1940s cotton/rayon replaced in some cases the goldwire, but you can find more information on this forum:

http://gmic.co.uk/in...ce/page__st__20

To my opinoon the hat is 1940s, but I have doubts about the age of the tally.

thanks in advance for responses

i will never know the real key with this cap tally attatched to a ww2 pork pie and if the tally is period with non full-stop mistake or the tally is a post war souvenir one...... :banger: