Ribbon bar question

[Noor]

Hi guys,

Like I understand this bar below belonged to the Red Cross member, who served during the WW2.

- St.John of Jerusalem Order

- Defence Medal 1939-1945

- St.John of Jerusalem Order Service Medal

First did these guys had a uniform to wear a ribbon bars???

Then the last ribbon devices: looks like one Malta Crosse's is missing, does these mean long service and in this case how many years of it mean?

[IrishGunner]

I have no clue, just wanted to say that I am so envious of your ribbon bar finds - how do you do it?

[Michael Johnson]

Like this? Pelton Fell (http://www.peltonfell.org.uk/pelton_fell_history.php?page_id=3&id=27)

Edited July 15, 2011 by Michael Johnson

[Greg]

The ribbon bar indicates someone who is an Officer in the Order of St John of Jerusalem (UK & Commonwealth), has earned the WWII Defence Medal, and has the the Order of St John Service Medal with two bars representing 17 or 22 years service depending on where he/she served as some overseas locations earned the Service medal for shorter time spans than at home (in the UK !!).

Hope this helps.

Greg.

[Greg]

The medals are thus:

[Mervyn Mitton]

A nice set - and the group photo shows you the type of uniform worn. They do a good job at public functions and are usually present at major sporting events. They can be a nuisance - their uniform can be mistaken for a Special Constable's when regulars wore helmets. I can remember a couple of occasions when their supervisors had to be reminded to keep out of the way and stop telling the public what to do - but, that is the odd individual. All Police in the UK have to do a First Aid course - usually run by St. John's'

The origins of the Order are also interesting. They were founded to give aid to people going to the Crusades. They were originally the Knights Hospitallers. Driven out - with the Knights Templars - they took refuge on Cyprus - but, were again driven out by the Saracens and ended up in Malta.

Their badge became the Maltese Cross. Tucked away in Valetta - the capital of Malta, is the original HQ and Hospital of the Order. They gave their name to Hospitals.

[Noor]

Thanks guys for clarification!

[Archer]

Officer in the Order of St John of Jerusalem (UK & Commonwealth), has earned the WWII Defence Medal, and has the the Order of St John Service Medal with two bars representing 17 or 22 years service

Yes ... more or less!

* Ribbon denoting membership of the Order of St. John (any grade)

* Defence Medal

* Service Medal of the Order with two bars (one cross missing) denoting in the UK a total of 15 + 5 + 5 (total 25) years' service, and in (some) overseas brigades 12 + 5 + 5 (total 22) years' service.

Check out my gallery for some nice groups.

William

[Greg]

Questions

1. If the first ribbon indicates any grade in the Order of St. John, why are some ribbons plain black with no miniature cross, some with silver crosses, and some with white crosses?

2. Why are the Ambulance Officers in the photograph wearing pistols?

Greg.

[Noor]

2. Why are the Ambulance Officers in the photograph wearing pistols?

Good question - holster looks massive, maybe its a flare pistol?

Anyway, there is a odd "medicine" around sometimes...

[Mervyn Mitton]

The leather pouches are probably for more sensitive equipment - they carried bandages etc., in the white haversack. You will also see they had water bottles. They were never armed.

[Archer]

If the first ribbon indicates any grade in the Order of St. John, why are some ribbons plain black with no miniature cross, some with silver crosses, and some with white crosses?

Don't get me started on one of my hobby horses! The real world is NEVER as clear cut as collectors believe it is or should be.

You are ENTITLED to wear a black silk ribbon with a silver Maltese cross on it to indicate membership of the Order.

If you don't have a cross or don't have a tailor who knows what he's doing you might possibly wear a plain black ribbon.

I don't know about white crosses. Please put up a photograph if you have one.

I am a Commander of the Order. Here is my ribbon bar. Note the "white" in the cross is cotton thread holding the cross in place on the ribbon. In some lights the cross looks dark grey rimmed with silver!

[Graham Stewart]

Like this? Pelton Fell (http://www.peltonfell.org.uk/pelton_fell_history.php?page_id=3&id=27)

What a cracking photo of the Pelton Fell, S.J.A.B. members. As you will have noticed at least four of them are WWI veterans and at least one in the back row appears to be a M.M. winner. Pelton Fell is located near Chester-Le-Street, County Durham, my home county. In the background is their local colliery.

Durham was built on "King Coal" and at it's peak over 300 Collieries existed, employing around a quarter of a million men and boys. Nearly every Colliery had an S.J.A.B. section usually made up of mineworkers, who practiced first aid in their leisure time at the Colliery Institute(The "Tute"). I was an S.J.A.B. Cadet at Brandon Colliery and remember that many of the seniors took part in first aid exercises and competitions throughout the county against other S.J.A.B. sections.

Edited July 16, 2011 by Graham Stewart