Luftmensch Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Can someone help ID this? it looks like a hybrid between an RNAS and later RAF visor. Is this from that little known era 1919-1924 prior to Fleet Air Arm, or is it in fact FAA, or something else entirely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftmensch Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 Or....if no one knows....can anyone date Gieves labels or have an identical one in clothing of known period?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odulf Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Can someone help ID this? it looks like a hybrid between an RNAS and later RAF visor. Is this from that little known era 1919-1924 prior to Fleet Air Arm, or is it in fact FAA, or something else entirely? Looks pretty much like RNAS to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftmensch Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 Nope. Look at the wreath again, especially below the eagle. Plus, the RNAS eagle is smaller and silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftmensch Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 (edited) So.... 1. Some unknown hybrid RNAS/RAF/RN design from 1919-1924? or... 2. "1 April 1924, the Fleet Air Arm of the Royal Air Force was formed, encompassing those RAF units that normally embarked on aircraft carriers and fighting ships." (Wiki) or... 3. " On 24 May 1939 the Fleet Air Arm was returned to Admiralty control[5] under the Inskip Award and renamed the Air Branch of the Royal Navy." (Wiki) But the RN FAA caps I've seen had an anchor inside the wreath, but they might have started out with something different and then modified it... Drawing blanks? Edited August 12, 2011 by Luftmensch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I must be honest and say that if I didn't know that they used this shape - and the Gieves label - then I could easily take this for a made-up piece. The shape of the cap is - to me - very Germanic. However, I see the owner's name is on the label - that will be your best place to start. Write to the Airforce Museum. Not sure if there is a RNAS Museum - perhaps at Yeovilton ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimble-nibitz Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 RNAS eagle must be silver or with remnants of silver plating, and smaller...this one is a full "sprig" too wide on each end. I have seen multiple examples of RAF eagles on naval bands, mainly to create WWI RNAS hats. Its also definately a WWII or later hat, appears to be rayon lining, no quilting, and either way, WWI did not use rayon (not invented) and unquilted lining. The crown is to big for WWI era. The leather visor is a bit to big. ANd the chinstrap is also not quite right. WWI era caps have very tight weave 'melton' type wool, 'boiled wool' so called, that seldom shows any 'fuzzies' at all, this is just a standard RN hat from WWII with an RAF eagle added. Several of these have been run on ebay in the last 3 years, appearing as WWI RNAS hats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 (edited) Interesting that you have specialised in the RNAS - I have a very rare medal to the original unit in WW1. He was an 'ace' for RNAS and is credited with 7 'kills' - he was awarded the DFM - for which only 105 were given before the end of the War. DFC's were much higher. There is a query in the naming and I keep meaning to have an expert researcher draw the papers. With full authentication it will be worth 5000 pounds. Is it only the uniform you have an interest in - I look forward to hearing from you - and, please give us a first name ......... Mervyn ps. Going back to the hat - are you saying that you think it is a made-up job ? Edited August 12, 2011 by Mervyn Mitton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftmensch Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 Thanks for the comments! I have the advantage of being able to compare this side by side with my two RNAS examples. Rayon is in production by 1924 which is right around that period I am querying. The visor is identical in dimension and the chinstrap identical in every respect to the blue RNAS I show. The crown is a hair larger than the blue but actually smaller than on my khaki RNAS, so those aren't obvious tells either. I am also suspicious that this is a made up RN cap but everything is so tightly sewn in and the eagle looks like it's been in there forever but that's not very scientific. Thanks for the warnings about previous made up examples, except this would be a very bungled effort to fake an RNAS cap because the wreath is completely wrong. Since none of you can examine this, I'm trying to approach this from the other end... What did Naval pilots wear in the RAF prior to 1924? What did the FAA of the RAF wear in 1924 and subsequently if patterns changed? If the answer is not the above, then it must be some Frankenstein's creation. As to the name, I can't yet make out every letter but that's a good suggestion. I'm not an RNAS specialist, Mervyn. My primary obsession is Zeppelins and First Blitz on London, which sometimes leads me on tangents like this, when I get into Home Defence and so on. Rgds John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftmensch Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 Another thing, that Gieves label doesn't look like those I've seen in WW2 garments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftmensch Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 Name is WALKER possibly WALKES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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