France Fourragere 13. DBLE - divided olive

[aubagne98]

Hi,

unfortunately my questions about this weren´t answered satisfyingly in an french medal forum to me, so I will try it here.

My question is: Why is the olive CdG39 divided in CdG and MM?

First 13. DBLE has worn the fourragere CdG39, than the fourragere MM avec olive CdG30, than two fourrageres MM/oliveCdG39 and the fourragere TOE.

Well, for the fourth palme at the TOE there would usually awarded the fourragere MM...instead the 13. DBLE got a second olive, in the colors of TOE.

So, one olive showing fourragere MM for CdG TOE, the other fourragre MM for CdG39.

Why is the olive 1939 divided?

This would only make sense on a fourragere LH.

Thanks for answer.

Michael

Edited November 9, 2011 by aubagne98

[TacHel]

Could you post a pic of these fourragere please? Don't know if its my cold... Am having a hard time concentrating today, because from what you describe, this would be an impossible combination.

[aubagne98]

http://imageshack.us...gere13dble.jpg/

Hi,

watch the link, please.

The 13. DBLE did win and wear the fourragere of the CdG 1939, than followong the fourragere Medaille Militaire (MM) with a single olive Croix de Guerre (CdG) 1939.

During Indochine the 13. DBLE got the fourragere CdG TOE (Theatre operation exterieur) and than after the fourth award of the TOE it was it would be changed into the fourragere MM with olive TOE, but the DBLE just had the fourragere MM with the olive 1939.

So instead getting a second fourragere MM with an olive TOE there was only the olive TOE added to the fourragere MM the DBLE just wears.

But now, and this is the question: why was the single olive CdG1939 changed in this divided one MM/CdG1939, you can see in the picture.

This would not be neccessary!

Michael

Edited November 9, 2011 by aubagne98

[TacHel]

A MM/LoH split olive on an MM fourragere already bearing a CdG TOE olive... This olive arrangement makes no sense whatsoever, unless they've completely changed regulations and I missed it...?

It looks like something made up for sale on eBay by somebody who had no idea what he was doing.

The only occasion for 2 olives are when they're split between 1914-18 CDG and 1939-45 CDG on MM or LoH coloured fourragères.

Edited November 9, 2011 by TacHel

[TacHel]

References confirm what you cite in your initial post, 13e Demi-Brigade de la Légion Étrangère received:

-1939-45 fourragère with split olive MM & CDG 39-45 (18/09/46)

-Military Medal fourragère with CdG TOE olive (17/03/56)

-Order of Liberation fourragère (23/02/96)

Edited November 9, 2011 by TacHel

[aubagne98]

A MM/LoH split olive

Hi,

sorry for the bad picture, here is a clearer one.

This isn´t a split olive MM/LH, it is split CdG1939/MM.

http://i61.servimg.com/u/f61/09/01/86/07/photos10.jpg

Well, that´s my question

1939-45 fourragère with split olive MM & CDG 39-45 (18/09/46) - Why splitted?!

I know pictures of several ancien legionnaires who served in the 13. DBLE (before receiving the fourragere TOE), they all wear the fourragere MM with a single olive CdG1939.

That the chronologie

1st and 2nd citation WW2 on May 21 1941 -> fourragere CdG1939

4th citation WW2 April 6 1945 -> fourragere Medaille Militaire with single olive CdG1939.

2nd citation Indochine Feb 12 1952 -> fourragere TOE, wearing together with Fourragere MM with single olive CdG -> two fourrageres

3rd and 4th citation Indochine Oct 29 1955 -> would mean fourragere MM with single olive TOE -> but instead of a second fourragere MM, the first fourragere MM get a second olive, this one single of TOE.

Well...why was the single olive CdG1939 change into a split olive MM/CdG1939??

This doesn´t make sense...other regiments do not have a split olive at the same position.

The way the 13 DBLE wears its fourragere would say: fourragere MM with spilt olive, because for this the DBLE received the MM and the single olive they received the CdG, not the MM.

Michael

Sorry, how can I put in pictures?

I only get the URL window , but I do not know how to use.

I want to post a picture which I have on my desktop.

[TacHel]

To post a pic:

Click on "More Reply Options" at bottom right of text input box.

The screen will change offering you a bigger input box with the "ATTACH FILE" option below it at left.

Click on "Choose Files...", it'll take you to your computer for upload. You are limited to 150k I think...

[TacHel]

I've written 3 friends in France including the pictures.

All 3 are French vets, 1 from the Legion, all 3 are avid collectors of militaria. Hopefully one of them will be able to shed some light on this weird thing.

[aubagne98]

Hi,

a German collector friend of French militaria answered me, that I have to near this from the other side...why isn´t the olive TOE splitted?

There is no regulation for the TOE to be splitted in the higher classes of MM and LH, so it is worn as a single olive

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Les_fourrag%C3%A8res_TOE1.jpg

He also said, that the single olive is worn if only one olive is on the FourrMM, in case of a second, it will be divided.

Well this makes sense when I look at this

http://www.omsa.org/photopost/data/1060/four_MM.jpg

He also told me, that both olives are splitted in case the MM was won in both WWs - but this doesn´t fit to this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Fourrag%C3%A8re_aux_couleurs_de_la_m%C3%A9daille_miltaire_avec_olives_de_la_croix_de_guerre_1914-1918_1939-1945.jpg

CONFUSING

Michael

[TacHel]

The fourragère you linked to at OMSA is from my collection, I have all of them. It's a combined 14-18 & 39-45 CdG fourragère, quite common actually.

The problem with the 13e DBLE fourragère in your pics is that a single fourragère has olives from 2 different CdGs (TOE and 39-45), and that simply isn't right. I hope my French colleagues can shed some light onto this.

[aubagne98]

He also told me, that both olives are splitted in case the MM was won in both WWs -

but this doesn´t fit to this

http://upload.wikime...8_1939-1945.jpg

My words...