Making sense of it all - Sacred Treasures of known award date....

[Dieter3]

I checked the cert and it was awarded in 1963.

Paul, do any of your know-date later issues have any maker's marks or a code like Pieter's 4th, or other pieces of 80s, 90s issue??

Edited January 15, 2012 by Dieter3

[Dieter3]

From a current auction - 1st Class, 1985 - also with PM Nakasone's name, like Pieter2012's 4th class, but two years later. These pictures are nearly worthless. Considering the prices, it always staggers the mind (at least mine) that sellers use such low-rent photos, and so few.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2012/post-6375-0-41665300-1326601045.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2012/post-6375-0-80620600-1326601053.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2012/post-6375-0-48938900-1326601055.jpg

Anyway - this piece, if we believe it to be matched, and I have no reason to believe otherwise - shows us that clearly two methods of construction were used simultaneously - screws and rivets - the question is why? Granted - the difference is between a 4th and a 1st Class piece. Perhaps 1st class pieces have ALWAYS been riveted like this. 3rd Class pieces have clearly been shown to have the non-rivet, and non-screw type construction - just the plain - but where in time must they fit? Could they also have been mixed with the riveted type like Paul's 1963? Are they later? More on my latest crackpot theory soon..... :lol:

Edited January 15, 2012 by Dieter3

[Dieter3]

Unfortunately, could not be fully photographed for obvious reasons - 1st Class as awarded to General Nogi on April 1st, 1897. I think think this counts as a known-dated award! I think I posted this elsewhere, but I'll add it here again to support this thread.....

[Dieter3]

[JapanX]

From a current auction - 1st Class, 1985 - also with PM Nakasone's name, like Pieter2012's 4th class, but two years later. These pictures are nearly worthless. Considering the prices, it always staggers the mind (at least mine) that sellers use such low-rent photos, and so few.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2012/post-6375-0-41665300-1326601045.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2012/post-6375-0-80620600-1326601053.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2012/post-6375-0-48938900-1326601055.jpg

Anyway - this piece, if we believe it to be matched, and I have no reason to believe otherwise - shows us that clearly two methods of construction were used simultaneously - screws and rivets - the question is why? Granted - the difference is between a 4th and a 1st Class piece. Perhaps 1st class pieces have ALWAYS been riveted like this. 3rd Class pieces have clearly been shown to have the non-rivet, and non-screw type construction - just the plain - but where in time must they fit? Could they also have been mixed with the riveted type like Paul's 1963? Are they later? More on my latest crackpot theory soon.....

You didn't noticed (or didn't wrote about it) the most interesting thing.

The star has absolutely different type of pin.

I call it "trident pin"

One of these days I'll post the photos of such star, with exactly the same pin, but with screws!!!

I am sure you gonna love it! ;)

[JapanX]

Regarding your question about 2-digit codes Dieter.

I find them only on two-screw sacred treasures (and 7th and 8th classes that were issued during the same period).

So 2-digit codes on no-two-screws variation? I think "no chance"

Cheers,

Nick

P.S. Great photos of Nogi's 1st class sacred treasure!

[Dieter3]

You didn't noticed (or didn't wrote about it) the most interesting thing.

The star has absolutely different type of pin.

I call it "trident pin"

One of these days I'll post the photos of such star, with exactly the same pin, but with screws!!!

I am sure you gonna love it!

Oh yes!! Must see!!

Regarding your question about 2-digit codes Dieter.

I find them only on two-screw sacred treasures (and 7th and 8th classes that were issued during the same period).

So 2-digit codes on no-two-screws variation? I think "no chance"

Agreed! I've only seen and heard from others that these are on screw-type pieces. But this makes me curious - so we know some awards like posted above that are issued during this same time period - do they have this coding, like 3rd class, etc.?? I wonder....