Looking for help with JAAF insignia regulations - need referrals

[rathbonemuseum]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone on the forum has knowledge of or access to official regulations regarding the flight insignia worn by the Imperial Japanese Army Airforce. I am trying to find out if there were official designations or classes to the many styles of wings that I have collected and seen in photos. Issues such as the color of the stars, presence of bullion, etc. I believe there is more to it than just stylistic differences in manufacturers.

Also, would love to get some identification help with the many school graduation watch fobs.

Please let me know who would be good to contact.

Thanks,

Tod

[JapanX]

I was wondering if anyone on the forum has knowledge of or access to official regulations regarding the flight insignia worn by the Imperial Japanese Army Airforce. I am trying to find out if there were official designations or classes to the many styles of wings that I have collected and seen in photos. Issues such as the color of the stars, presence of bullion, etc. I believe there is more to it than just stylistic differences in manufacturers.

Also, would love to get some identification help with the many school graduation watch fobs.

Hi Tod,

unfortunately I couldn't help you with uniform regulation or school graduation watch fobs identification (although it would be nice to see the latter ones ), because I am badges/medals/orders collector.

But naturally I collect Japanese pilot badges. And I've just visited your Museum web page. Thank you for all your work!

Very, very interesting!!!

And of course I was more than interested in Imperial Japanese Air Force insignia section of your museum.

http://www.rathbonemuseum.com/JAPAN/JPInsignia/JPInsignia.html

In this section I found well known and very rare badge described as "JAAF graduation Badge of a superior officer pilot (courtesy Jacques Pey collection)". The same badge was described in James Peterson book (page 107) as "Officer Pilot Badge. ... A five pointed star in gold gilt is centered. The wings are gold gilt, the propeller silver."

Interesting that Peterson didn't mentioned any classes for this badge (1st or 2nd/superior or lower)...

Even more interesting is that I have in my collection badges with silver star and wings, but the propeller in gold gilt!

And even more interesting examples that have star, wings and propeller in gold gilt!!!

Not to mention another variation with gold rays, gold star, gold propeller and copper-plated wings...

So I wonder why you identified this badge as "superior"?

Maybe you (or Mr. Jacques Pey) have some additional info about the statute for this badge?

Regards,

Nick

Edited March 23, 2012 by JapanX

[Jareth]

You'll get all the help you need on this fine board. Might need to register http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php

[rathbonemuseum]

Dear JapanX,

I labeled it as superior because I believe the grade depicted with the gold propeller and star was superior to the bronze winged version. And this is exactly the issue. I do not know how these grades were determined. Place in the class? Officer vs. NCO? I don't know. And as for your all gilt version, I have not even seen that one. Is it a higher grade? I don't know. That is what I am trying to figure out with some help.

And Jareth, thanks, but all the posts are particularly about aircraft and not uniform insignia. Unless you know of some threads I did not see.

[JapanX]

Dear JapanX,

I labeled it as superior because I believe the grade depicted with the gold propeller and star was superior to the bronze winged version. And this is exactly the issue. I do not know how these grades were determined. Place in the class? Officer vs. NCO? I don't know. And as for your all gilt version, I have not even seen that one. Is it a higher grade? I don't know. That is what I am trying to figure out with some help.

Tod, this badge definitely had two classes (from 1923 till 1940)

the higher class (a.k.a 1st class) for officers

the lower class (a..k.a 2nd class) for NCOs

I believe that after 1940 only 2nd class badges for NCOs were awarded (usually after graduation from Army Air Force Academy).

The problem is that 1st class badges should be "silver" and 2nd class badge should be "bronze"...

Why this is a problem?

Because we observe too many different variations for so-called 1st class "silver" badges.

1) star, propeller and wings in gold gilt

2) star and propeller in gold gilt, but wings in silver

3) star in gold gilt, but propeller and wings in silver

And even 2nd class badges ("bronze" ones with copper-plated wings) have two variations:

1) star, propeller and rays in gold gilt

2) star in gold gilt, but propeller and rays in silver

Are these just stylistic differences in manufacturers?!

I don't know...

Cheers,

Nick

[rathbonemuseum]

And there you have the dilema. It is the same way with the JAAF flight wings. Some differences are probably the difference between field and dress uniforms. Some are a difference in grade. But there is simply no evidence. And that is strange given how much is known about much smaller air forces of the period.

So I am hoping to find someone who has information or even documents to spell out what is what.

Tod

[JapanX]

But there is simply no evidence. And that is strange given how much is known about much smaller air forces of the period.

You've got to get used to this strangeness...

It is quite typical "phenomenon" for Japanese phaleristics.

Nick

Edited March 23, 2012 by JapanX

[rathbonemuseum]

Nick,

Here is an example of what I am talking about. There is enough range in the different types of wings here to be more than simple manufacturing differences. Especially the one with the mum in the center.

[JapanX]

Very impressive collection Tod!

Congratulations!!!

And even observer wings (lower row)! These are very rare... Cool!

By the way, the direction of the the eagle head on the observer wings is unstable too

Metal wings have eagles looking to the left

So maybe it's just stylistic differences in manufacturers after all??? Hmmmm...

If you wish I could post my army pilot badges collection in a couple of days ...

Cheers,

Nick

[rathbonemuseum]

Yes, Nick, please do. Let's see what we can catalog.

[JapanX]

Ok. I will post it in a separate thread tomorrow (hopefully ).