1914 star trio 2nd dragoons/royal scots greys..advice needed

[chrisjburr]

Hi there, I am hoping someone will read and answer this before tomorrow morning...my local auction has a general sale and i found a ww1 1914 star trio to a private in the 2nd dragoons, royal scots greys.....As it is not really my field I would like some advice on how much to pay..bearing in mind I will want to sell on to help fund my own collecting habit...I must add there is a BWM for a family member in south staffs...Please help with this...If I win these medals I will list full details of the recipient on here and will be open to offers ..regards chris

[Mervyn Mitton]

Chris - I wish you luck with the trio. Does the star have the bar on the ribbon showing the dates 5th August to

22 november 1914 ? Also a rosette in silver to go on the ribbon bar ? These meant that the recipient saw action

under fire during this period and they add considerably to the value. Without them I would have thought around stg 120 -

but as with all medals this has to be dependent on rank, condition and how many issued to the unit.

A single 1st WW silver war medal is not a valuable item since it is missing the Victory medal.

Do post them if you are succesful - then we can see the naming details. With regard to selling you will be able to

do this on our For Sale section. Much better for you as it is a free service. Mervyn

[chrisjburr]

Ok I won the medals...the 1914 star is named to 955 Pte F. Flanders 2/DNS, The BWM & Victory is named to D-955 PTE A. Flanders 2-DNS. I looked on the CWGC website and found record for a Private Frank Albert, service number 955 of 2nd dragoons (Royal Scots Greys) who died on 12/11/1917...When I searched the National Archives there appears to be two index cards ..One for Private Albert Flanders D/955 and the other is for F flanders 955. Am I to assume the Medals were awrded at different times and all three medals are correct for the Pte Flanders listed on the CWGC.....Also the 1914 star is missing the ribbon so how to I find out if he would have had the bar and rosette on the ribbon?......HELP....thanks Chris...P.S. the single BWM is named to 42420 PTE R.S.FLANDERS S. STAFFS..I assume a relative..

[chrisjburr]

UPDATE..STILL NEED HELP PLEASE..Just downloaded two Medal Index Cards from The National Archives.....First one is for the BWM and Victory....Name Albert Flanders , 2nd Dragoons, private, D/955 ...The only other details on here is Roll CC/103 B1 Page 22......the second one is for 14 Star F. Flanders, 2nd Dragoons, private, 955, Roll CC/1 Page 25. Nothing in the theatre of war first served in but in the Date of entry therein is 9.9.14. In the Remarks box has the word "Dead" written...Also on the left hand side under the medals list the is another number hand written. BL/2/3239..Im not absolutely sure if it is a BL...With all this information I'm still no nearer understanding if he should have the bar and rosette on the 14 star...Chris

[chrisjburr]

MORE UPDATE...Going to bang head against wall as I have just realised I have answered my own Question...Following from Wikipedia.....

.Clasp

• 5th Aug.-22nd Nov. 1914
  
  • Often referred to as Clasp and Roses. Instituted in 1919 (Army Order Number 361 published 16 October 1919) and awarded to those who had operated within range of enemy mobile artillery during the above period.When the ribbon bar was worn alone, recipients of the clasp to the medal wore a small silver rosette on the ribbon bar.
    

So I think I am correct to assume that as it states on the MIC he entered the theatre of war on the 9.9.14 he is entitlled to clasp and rosette......

Please someone put me out of my misery....Chris

[Mervyn Mitton]

Not everyone who was in that campaign received the bar and rosette. Many personnel would not have been under

the possibility of fire. However, in this case I expect he served at the front. You need to draw his papers from the

Archive or, contact the museum for the 2nd. Dragoons. Since your research shows him as dead - where and how ?

1914 Star and Bar - and K.I.A. turns this into quite a valuable group. Mervyn

[chrisjburr]

Thanks Mervyn...I have more Info...His name was Albert Flanders, He was from Coventry, Warwickshire , England. He died on 12 Nov 1917. The location of his Death is France & Flanders. He died of Wounds and Theatre of war is listed as Western European Theatre.... So does this mean he is entitled to the bar and rosette?? Chris

Edited April 7, 2012 by chrisjburr

[QSAMIKE]

According to B.B.M. the 2nd Dragoons were entitled to the Bar so long as they were in country at the corresct time......

According to your checking the Index card he was......

Mike

[chrisjburr]

Hi guys, I have to thank Mervyn & Qsamike for there input on this thread....Here are photos of the medals along with a regimental badge. This group will now be listed on Ebay this evening...I bought to sell and as such they owe me..

Thanks Guys...regards Chris

[Mervyn Mitton]

Best of luck - and do mention in the write-up that he was an "Old Contemptible' and entitled to the bar & rosette.

Let us know how you get-on ?

[chrisjburr]

Thanks Mervyn...The group currently on ebay as is the single BWM...I have my eye on another possible purchase at yet another auction..group of four..1914 star with bar, bwm, victory,long service medal and wwII defence medal...estimate £30-£50....

[chrisjburr]

Hi Mervyn and everybody else... this group sold for £280...to a buyer in scotland...So this ends this thread but if I am lucky enough to purchase the medals I have my eye on that come up for sale on sunday 15th I will start a new thread or two ;)

[Mervyn Mitton]

I would say that it was a very fair price - especially since the bar and rosette were not present. Being a top

regiment helped. Mervyn